On a weirdness scale of 1 to 10, slant six racers are right around a 12.5
I like it!
CJ
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| 2014 Rules Discussion - E-85 /Nitromethane https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53922 |
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| Author: | Rick Covalt [ Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 2014 Rules Discussion - E-85 /Nitromethane |
Although Bruce and I did not discuss this, I found it written down on one of my lists to review these to topics and set the rules for the future. There was quite a bit of discussion on the site about them and it was suggested that we re-visit them, so here we go. 1) Is Nitro methane banned in all slant six classes? The current form used to apply for a new record clearly states "No Nitro Methane allowed" Does that mean for records only, or does that mean that none can be used at any time? The following is from the current Rules for record setting: G is for gasoline, this means gas that would pass an NHRA fuel check, no designer oxygenated gas or E85. A is for alcohol with no power enhancers, especially no nitro methane. N is for nitrous oxide which may be used with either gas or alcohol. U is for unlimited as to fuel and modifications, all supercharged cars go into this class but nitrous is also allowed. If we decide that Nitro is banned the above rule should be updated to state no Nitro Methane in any classes, since it is only mentioned under the "Alcohol" class. 2) We need to decide which class E-85 will be placed in for record setting. Does it go in gas? Does it go in Alcohol? The above rule appears to ban E-85, so that will need to be changed if it is allowed in whatever class. 3) Since pump gas is 10-15% ethanol, when does it cease to be "gasoline" for the purpose of setting records? It was suggested in the past that we say something such as "gasoline containing less than 20% ethanol shall be considered gasoline for the purpose of Slant 6 records. |
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| Author: | CNC-Dude [ Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:45 pm ] |
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I would consider an alcohol based gas a "blend", and therefore an advantage since it increases octane, so it shouldn't be allowed in a "Gas" class but in the racing fuel class if they want to us it. Also, its just Slant 6 racing, who is going to have a dielectric checker to perform fuel checks to identify Nitro or any other additives. There are other oxidizers you can add in undetectable amounts that are just as effective as Nitro but a dielectric checker wont detect, so then what. |
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| Author: | ceej [ Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:36 pm ] |
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What are the rules NHRA uses to define E-85? I believe they consider it to be Alcohol. Since pump gas is 10% in most places, with amounts up to 20% being used, I would agree with the 20% and less definition for "Gasoline." Some competitors may not even know what percentage they are getting in a fill-up anymore. Perhaps we could add an Oxidizer class for any NHRA/IHRA allowed compounds. Nitro would be the most likely. Anybody prepared to be listed with Homeland Security for a pail of go juice, and to risk an oil down fee should have the option. I haven't heard of too many successful stories running Nitro in a slant. Seen some of the parts afterward though! It could also put some pretty good numbers in the books, successfully executed. I will leave the question of whether Nitro burning cars are allowed to compete in an SSRN event open at this point. It doesn't make a lot of sense to have the record class if the car isn't allowed to compete at the target event. As an exhibition class, it may hold some interest. Speed differentials have, and will continue to be large, where grocery getters are paired with purpose built race cars. A Nitro class would compound this issue, though we already have race cars running through the traps 60 mph faster than some of the street cars they are overtaking. Another 50th of a buck. CJ |
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| Author: | Fopar [ Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:13 pm ] |
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If it is sold to the general public through branded service stations (Texaco, Mobile, Shell, and any like kinds) in grades Regular, Mid-grade, Premium. That should be gasoline the amount of alcohol mandated by goverment shouldn't change the rules. Nitro-methane Isn't allowed in street classes in NHRA rules, But if you want to risk all of the above stated risks outlined by Ceej Be Warned. Richard |
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| Author: | slantzilla [ Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:36 pm ] |
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E-85 is considered alcohol. Nitro is pretty much not legal at any track except in Fuel classes. |
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| Author: | slantzilla [ Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:23 am ] |
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It is also a federal offense to possess nitro without permits. |
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| Author: | Turbo Toad [ Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:29 am ] |
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Please get the e85clarification straightened , around I believe I may be the only slant racer using it at this time and plan on making some races next year. It is considered alcohol but with 15% gas mix but from my testing its more like 17% gas just alittle fyi Aaron |
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| Author: | Fopar [ Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:08 am ] |
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Doug Powers runs E85, has to run it richer. Richard |
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| Author: | ceej [ Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:03 pm ] |
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Alethea's car ran E-85 as well. CJ |
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| Author: | DusterIdiot [ Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Yep... |
Quote: I would consider an alcohol based gas a "blend", and therefore an advantage since it increases octane, so it shouldn't be allowed in a "Gas" class but in the racing fuel class if they want to us it.
That shouldn't matter as Octane rating is just knock index...higher octane just means you can run more compression or timing before one fuel allows the engine to go into detonation over the other given the same specific engine and conditions...alcohol has higher octane but only has 80% of the potential energy of gasoline (and unlike gasoline it has an affinity for water, and also takes heat from the environment when burned correctly)...so technically "pump" gas provides the correct octane rating at the 10-20% level but the consumer is getting shafted at the mpg level (assuming that you are using the perfect computer to run the timing and injectors to get best stoich), the end result is a gallon of fuel that provides closer to 95% of the potential energy of a true gallon of gas...(but you'll never notice in a new vehicle since most people just motor along at highway speeds with the EGR helping things out on the small displacement engine). So I support Fopar's line of reasoning.Off soap box...so E10-E20 should be considered Gas since it is dispensed for street driving (and may become the normal fuel for racers if legislation continues and makes getting normal non-E fuel harder to obtain...two gas stations in town got fined for dispensing non-E super into a newer vehicle, law up here says it only can be dispensed into a pre-90's vehicle or into a gas can). E-85 should run as alcohol since even 100% pure for fuel is not 100% pure (companies per Federal Regulations have to denature it with gasoline or other petrochemical to keep the consumer from buying a 55 gallon drum for jungle juice parties...drive it or drink it...) 2 of them copper lincolns... -D.Idiot |
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| Author: | Turbo Toad [ Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:33 am ] |
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Quote: Alethea's car ran E-85 as well.
Oh cool I thought I might be out on a island all alone. Good to see other slanters are taken advantage that fuel has to offer. CJ Aaron |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:25 pm ] |
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Personally, I doubt you'll ever run as fast on E85 nat aspirated as race gas, and E85 is at the pump. Anyone with boost/N2O would be in different classes than gas anyway. So, I would call E85 gas, but I guess I am weird. I am happy to call it alcohol too. Lou |
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| Author: | ceej [ Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:36 pm ] |
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On a weirdness scale of 1 to 10, slant six racers are right around a 12.5 I like it! CJ |
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| Author: | slantzilla [ Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:38 pm ] |
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A lot of guys are switching from race gas to E-85 because of the cost. You have to modify the carb just like methanol. Most see a gain in between race gas and methanol. Cars seem to get more consistent too. |
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| Author: | Rick Covalt [ Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:51 pm ] |
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Quote: I would call E85 gas, but I guess I am weird. I am happy to call it alcohol too
I think we all will admit to being just a tad bit wierd!! But forgive me for being a little dense in the math department. If something is 85% alcohol, and 15% gas, how does it qualify for the same class that is 85% gas and 15% alcohol?  Had to Razz you just a bit Lou! I vote for E-85 to be in the Alcohol class, anything under 20% is considered Gas class & No Nitro Methane in Slant 6 races |
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