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| leaf springs shot https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53946 |
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| Author: | '67 Dart 270 [ Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | leaf springs shot |
I took my '67 dart to Costco on Friday to get Thanksgiving groceries. I have only my front seat in the car, the rest of the interior is out pending a redo. The suspension sits about level with just me in the car. I put about 200 pounds of groceries in the trunk, and you'd have thought I had gold bars in there, the rearend was soooo low.....I have to get new leaf springs. Does anyone have recommendations on upgrades? Should I get OEM spec replacements or something a bit stiffer/stronger? I'm leaning toward the latter... thanks all, and Happy Thanksgiving. BG |
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| Author: | wjajr [ Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I don’t know your plans for any suspension upgrades or budget for such a project, but this is what I did to beat to death 67 Dart suspension: Keep in mind that a /6 (0.820â€) torsion bar cost the same as a 1â€, and most rear springs or different rates are close in price as well. I copied the Formula S setup that big block cars used back in the day using 0.940†torsion bars from [url=http://www.firmfeel.com/a.htm]Firm Feel[/url], and six leaf stock ride height rear springs from [url=http://www.springsnthings.com/]ESPO[/url] on my rag top. All new suspension bushings stem to stern, sub frame connectors, and 1/1/4†front sway bar. Also I had power steering gear rebuilt to level 2 firm feel by [url=http://www.steerandgear.com/]Steer n Gear[/url] as it was a worn out leaking flopping mess. I would have used thicker torsion bars, but convertibles like a softer front spring rate. Loading the trunk does not make car squat too much, and it handles like a modern car, flat cornering, no braking nose-dive, and eats up curvy country roads with ease. You will need to call ESPO for A Body spring pricing; they will build spring with non-stock ride height if wanted. I used Steer n Gear because shipping 40 pounds to Ohio less than to Firm Feel (also recommended) on west coast where I live in Maine. |
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| Author: | '67 Dart 270 [ Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Thanks... |
Yes, I noticed the pricing on the suspension items isn't that different, so this is great information. I did intend to get thicker torsion bars, front and rear sway eventually. I have a newly rebuilt 8 1/4 rearend and the shock plates and u-bolts, and a shorter drive shaft already. Those are all cleaned up and ready. Just need leaf springs and bushings for the back part; was wondering about the leafs. Six layer heavier springs sounds like the ticket, maybe a bit higher lift in the back, but not much. bg |
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| Author: | DusterIdiot [ Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Yep... |
Quote: Six layer heavier springs sounds like the ticket, maybe a bit higher lift in the back, but not much.
I use those in my duster and you can put a 250 lb load of dead weight in the trunk and it sits just right and still allows a 275 series drag radial to fit under the wheel well lip, they are still good after installing them back in 2005...-D.Idiot |
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| Author: | Aggressive Ted [ Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | ESPO Leaf springs |
Quote: Does anyone have recommendations on upgrades? Should I get OEM spec replacements or something a bit stiffer/stronger? I'm leaning toward the latter...
I use the ESPO 6 leaf too! Absolutely love them! I can fill the trunk full of concrete blocks, planting dirt or bark or what have you and the car rides nice and flat. I have to put 30 pounds of air in the tires as they will take a hit before the springs do! The car corners far better at 50 to 60 mph around the twisty back roads along the foothills. Check the rake on my car by clicking on the red link below my name. |
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| Author: | Sam Powell [ Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
If you have another set of springs around, take the top one off each side of the spares, cut off the eye off each end and place it in your spring pack as number two spring down. Make it extend further towards the shackle than the stock one.I made mine end about halfway between the stock number two leaf end and the shackle. Most of the sag happens in that part of the top spring that has no support from the rest of the pack at the rear. A hack saw will cut that spring material easily. Now you have a six pack spring set for cheap that will work well. IN fact mine sat up so high I had to put lowering front perches on. You can buy the spring pack wrappers from the suspension suppliers. Sam |
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| Author: | zorg [ Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I have the 6 leaf ESPO springs as well, and I'm thinking about pulling a leaf out. While I can load a spare motor in the trunk, or tow a trailer without squatting, it gets a little squirrelly on uneven roads. So you might want to ask them the spring rate difference between the 5 and 6 leaf packs. |
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| Author: | Aggressive Ted [ Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
On my daily driver, I run KYB shocks with the EXPO 6 leaf and also have used a set of Edelbrock shocks which are great! With heavy duty shocks there is no squirrel. It tracks like a cat.....with 26" tall tires. Stock shocks do not handle the spring very well. |
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| Author: | Sam Powell [ Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Zorg, I would describe mine the same way, with Edelbrock shocks all the way around. I have the late A body disks up front, which widen the track. I also have the solid LCA struts, and 340 torsion bars, so the front is really tight. Things got better when I put 6.5 wheels on the front and 7.5 on the rear. I suspect it will get better if I go to 195 tires in the front and keep the 205's in the rear. It is my opinion that the live axle is the real weakness here. It is simple, and mostly trouble free, but will not stay in contact with the road like IRS will. This means that all things being equal, the rear wants to let go first. Especially with that long trunk hanging out past the rear wheels, which contribute to yaw. Sam |
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| Author: | Aggressive Ted [ Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: It is my opinion that the live axle is the real weakness here.
That is an interesting thought about the open diff.......I have an 8 3/4 with a Sure-Grip and on the twisty bump back roads around the foot hills it stays glued!I also run 340 torsion bars and Edelbrock shocks in the front with a 1 1/4" Sway bar. The car is very planted in the corners and in the rough stuff as well. |
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| Author: | zorg [ Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Sam, that does make sense about the solid axle vs. IRS. I'm running Edelbrock shocks all the way around, Firm Feel 1" sway bars, stiffened LCAs, welded K frame, C-body tie rods, 1 1/8" front Sway bar, fresh manual steering box, etc. so mine is all very tight as well. 225/50R16 on 7" wide wheels. The only thing I'm still lacking are subframe connectors. Ted, I'm curious, as we seem to have very similar cars. The condition I'm describing is unaffected by a Sure-Grip or open diff. (I've run both). It's not an issue of the rear end wanting to slide, but of too stiff a spring rate causing the whole rear end to jump. You know when you go over a speed bump in the grocery store parking lot a little too fast, and you can hear everything come crashing back down in the trunk? I get that over rough spots/bumps when I'm carving up back roads, and it can be a little unsettling when pushing it through a corner. That's where I'm thinking a 5 leaf set might be a little more forgiving? BG, sorry for the hi-jack. But I'm hoping it will be of help to figure out what you need for how you drive. |
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| Author: | Aggressive Ted [ Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Zorg, I Understand..... To resolve that issue it is pretty easy to put a 1" solid block aluminum spacer in front of the rear spring hanger to change the angle of the arms from straight up to slightly forward. This will allow the arms to work a little more with the springs and take out that sudden jolt. With tall tires and extra sidewall height helps to dampen what you have described. I can see how a lower profile tire would be harsher. I would never go back to a 5 leaf spring again. You may want to do the 1" spacer modification. Some have gone as much as 2", but you may find that to be too much swing for a street car. My winter snow tires are P205 75R 14 front and back on stock 14 x 5.5" stock steel 69 Dart 340 rims. In the summer I use 14 x 7" aluminum rims with P215 70's. I never go over 28 pounds of air in the rear since it is so light. I have worn the centers our of many sets of tires over the years during my long commutes with 32 to 36 pounds in the rear. However, in the front I do run 36 pounds for the best balance and handling. I usually carry my computer roll away (about 35 lbs.) in the trunk on the right side plus a few spare parts, rope, extra fluids, etc.....and that will also help dampen the quick snap. I also have a hitch from hell that weighs at least 125 pounds which helps dampen the effect. Long trips over the mountain passes with the trunk loaded it rides like our 72 Imperial. |
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| Author: | rich006 [ Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
@Ted, In the photos of your '74 Swinger it looks like the rear is a tiny bit higher than the front. Is that with the trunk loaded or empty? Also, let me say that's a beautiful engine compartment. My '74 Swinger is very jealous. |
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| Author: | Aggressive Ted [ Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Springs |
That is with the trunk basically empty, a few boxes up on the hump with rope, ice scraper, extinguisher, first aid kit, jumper cables, etc. I run with a 2" rake for best handling especially on the twisty back roads along the foothills. That way I don't have to turn the wheel much, just turn with the gas pedal! |
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