Walt's HAMBster.
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| Slant six turned to vertical...? https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54532 |
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| Author: | Cadillac Kid [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Slant six turned to vertical...? |
I'm new here, and I have a stupid question: Has anyone successfully run a Slant six in the vertical position? I am wanting to run an EFI slant six vertically (for a number of reasons) and wonder about oil pan and oil pickup mods, possible oil pressure and/or recirculation issues, and valve cover issues (like breather position). Is there an adapter available to turn the transmission to its proper position if the motor is vertical? Please don't come back with a bunch of "why do you want to do that?" responses; I would just like some info on doing it. I have two of these motors. Thanks. |
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| Author: | DadTruck [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:53 am ] |
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I understand there were marine appliations that had the slant laying on its side,, to set it upright,, you would need to square up the oil pan / pick up / dip stick assembly and verify that there is still reasonable oil drainage opportunitys from the head and lifter areas FI would resolve the carb mount being at a angle |
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| Author: | Reed [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:10 am ] |
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The biggest problem I see is the oiling system. You would need to build some kind of slope into the head around the valves since the oil is supposed to drain into the lifter gallery and then back into the pan due to gravity. The head is naturally sloped when the slant is installed in its normal slanted position allowing the oil that comes out of the rocker arm tips to drain back down to the sump. Then again, how did this work in the "space saver" marine engine packages where the engine layer horizontal? Anybody have an oiling system diagram for the horizontal marine engine? |
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| Author: | CNC-Dude [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:11 am ] |
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CEEJ is building his race car with it vertical. You will need to alter the oil pan and pickup and maybe the header tube routing to accomodate the difference in angle that will be created. What kind of vehicle are you putting it into. Standing it up vertical can also create hood clearance issues in some cars, so keep that in mind. |
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| Author: | Cadillac Kid [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:42 am ] |
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I had similar thoughts about the oiling system at the top of the head. But since oil seems to drain back on the right hand side (distributor side) of the engine, there might just be additional "pooling" there of oil, and I'm not sure that would be a problem. Not sure what the Chrysler engineers considered as "maximum tilt" on these engines, i.e. how many degrees out of vertical a car could run, safely, if on a hill "sideways." Any tilt angle (of the car) would be in addition to the 30 degrees I am considering by making it vertical. So with the bore axis mounted vertically, a 30 deg tilt to the left would be the equivalent to 60 deg from what the designers might have had in mind. But a 30 degree tilt to the right would place the bore axis at 30 degrees... which is "normal" slant six condition, on level ground. I.e., tilt to the left might be an issue, but not right. |
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| Author: | Cadillac Kid [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | application |
Hood clearance will not be a problem; I am thinking of a custom vehicle application designed around maintainability and durability. I have a 1938 Cadillac series 75 (limo) frame I am thinking of using as a testbed... mainly because I have one lying around, and I don't want to junk it. I am not normally a Chrysler guy, but the Slant six reputation for durability has me intrigued as to its possibilities. I purchased a short block and a '79 Volare recently to investigate. |
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| Author: | olafla [ Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:44 am ] |
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You will also get a problem with the intake manifold tilting 30° downwards when the engine is vertical, so it demands a custom intake system. Can you not use the engine as it is? BTW, many rod and custom builders have been using the complete Volare k-member, with engine attached to stock mounts, disc brakes, steering and suspension included on the k-member, which attaches to the frame with 4 bolts. Olaf |
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| Author: | Old6rodder [ Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:37 pm ] |
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Walt's HAMBster.
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| Author: | Cadillac Kid [ Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | dragster |
That's a good looking setup. Thanks. |
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| Author: | ceej [ Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Walt ran a stock intake with a wedge on top to stand the carb up when he first built the HAMB. It ran fine at the track. He now has a log manifold he built with three two barrels on top. The two end ones are hooked up and synchronous. The middle one is bling only.  Long pause for phone call.... Just got off the phone with Walt! When he brought the HAMB out the first time, he ran it with the stock pan and pickup. Apparently he didn't have any oiling problems. The engine pushed the car in the 14's, worn out stock. This was running in a straight line at the track. Your results may vary, depending on what your doing. When he built the race engine, he cut the pan about 3/4 of the way around on the bottom of the sump, bent the flap down level, cut a wedge of sheet metal to fit, and welded it up. That gave him a nice deep, flat bottomed sump. For the pickup, he welded an extension tube into the pickup tube, and bent the pickup level to the bottom of the pan. Hope that helps!  CJ |
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| Author: | Cadillac Kid [ Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | dragster |
I notice the intake has a slant to the top, obviously built for a regular slant setup but aftermarket. Is it Edelbrock? The oil pan mods seem straightforward. I was thinking of building a flat bottomed one out of scratch, from aluminum, but perhaps that's too much effort especially around the rear journal. Haven't looked too hard at my engines yet as we have been having mostly temps ranging from 0 F to low teens (F) here. Every oil pan pickup I've ever seen has appeared unnecessarily big to me, the size of a pancake. The design intent must be to pick up oil even if you are down to the last quart, approximately. Might also be to give more area to the screen, but if you have that much debris in the bottom of the pan I would imagine you have far bigger problems and the engine is not running. Is there some other reason? I bet the modern pickups are much smaller. |
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| Author: | ceej [ Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:22 am ] |
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I think he said it was a Clifford. He welded a flange on it, and bolts the intake to the head. It's not held on with the triangle washer arrangement. Much more stable. He installed Viton O-rings to seal the intakes to head. CJ |
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| Author: | Cadillac Kid [ Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | dragster |
Interesting. I hope to get into aluminum and iron casting in the next few years. Chrysler might have gone with that retention design to reduce the cost of the manifolds, not having to go through an extra step of drilling holes in the right places. All my pre-war Cadillacs have a similar design with hold-downs. O-rings are great in many applications, material selection for the service they see being very important of course. Gland (groove) design is often a challenge, as is assembly. Most of my design background in that regard is for liquid oxygen use in rocket applications. Actually not as big a deal, mostly, as some applications with heat/oil/solvents. |
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