Hey All,
Went out and tried to drain some ATF from Lorrie's Transmission to no avail.

Wanted to check the Transmission when it is hot. Lorrie started right up, but wouldn't go to her usual idle. She usually starts and goes to a 575 RPM idle as soon as she is running. Not this time. Had to turn the Idle Adjusting Screw in 1.5 turns to get her to stay running.

It was then that I noticed that the Oil Pressure Gauge was at 28 PSI.

Revved the Engine up and the Oil Pressure Gauge stayed at 28 PSI.

Tapped on the Gauge and the needle went to 40 PSI but wouldn't go any further

Lorrie usually puts up 60 PSI at idle cold and then settles to 55 PSI at idle after reaching operating temperature of 170 degrees.

This is not like her not to have good oil pressure.

Checked the oil. It is perfect. Like new and right at the full mark.

The Frantz Oil Cleaner Canister got hot so there is flow through the filtering system.

There are no strange sounds except for a little "chirp" when the Run Switch is turned off and the Engine comes to a stop.

Am thinking it might be the Oil Pump is going bad. OR it might be the Oil Pressure Gauge is going bad. Checked to line from the Oil Pump to the Oil Pressure Gauge. It has no kink or leaks.

Checked the Pressure Relief Valve. Took off the 15/16" Bolt. The Spring and Shuttle Body came right out. They are fine.

Is this something serious?

Is Lorrie safe to drive to go to the store? We seldom go faster than 35 MPH.

Also, since I wasn't able to extract any ATF, is it going to damage Lorrie's A727 Transmission to drive it that way?

Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

How cold is there?
When was the last time you drove it?
Is this a electrical oil gauge or a mechanical?
If electrical you may have a bad connection.

Does oil show on the xmission dipstick?

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Hey AT,
How have you been? It's 51 degrees out there right now, but it has been down as low at 19 degrees morning before last.
This afternoon Lorrie was driven around about a mile, just up and down the street here. Before that it was a week ago. We went to run the weekly errands. To the Post Office, Grocery Store, Computer Shop. Didn't notice at the time what the Oil Pressure was.
The Oil Pressure Gauge is a mechanical Stewart/Warner. Has a little plastic tube that comes from the Oil Pump to the Gauge.
No bad connection. But as mentioned previously, the Needle will go from 28 PSI to almost 40 PSI if I tap on the face of the gauge.
Yes. As mentioned previously over in the Transmission Threads, after replacing the U-Joint, the ATF Level was checked and there was NO ATF showing on the Dip Stick. Put in a quart and checked the level with the Engine running at operating temperature (though the transmission was not heated up). It was up to the level where it said "Add A Pint". Added a pint and it came up to right on the "Full" mark. The next time it was driven, it was again checked when we returned home and it showed then, as it does now, about a quart and a half above "Full".

Am thinking of taking one of the rubber hoses that goes FROM the Transmission TO the Radiator loose and put it in a large porcelain pot that is here and have my neighbor come start the Engine to see if that will dump some of the ATF. The problem is that I don't know which line comes FROM the output and which returns TO, but would find out in pretty short order.

What has me concerned is that Lorrie doesn't want to run without quite a bit of Idle Screw added. It's like maybe she isn't getting enough lubrication to make her run easy. There's no knocking or anything and she runs smooth but just doesn't want to stay running easily like she has up till now.

There was quite a bit of vibration when the U-Joint came apart the day before Christmas. Am wondering if THAT might have done something to the Engine?

As I told Reed, Lorrie starts really good after having the Starter Rebuilt. Doesn't even make a full revolution before it starts running.

Anyway, hope to get this latest caper of Lorrie's straightened out.

Will just have to wait and see.
What will be will be.
Time will tell.
Be well.
JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Not too bad, got some badly need rest over Christmas. Rebuilt the Holley 1920 Economaster over Christmas break, the accelerator pump passage way got clogged with some rubber debris and the power valve pivot rod fell out of the Economizer body, so I couldn't spin the tires for a few weeks. Replaced the #57 jet with a #56 for the winter months. The engine is nice and strong again now. Installed a new fuel water/separator filter and some NGK UR4 GP plugs. Made a new HEI mount and installed it. Changed the oil and installed some good 26" tall Hankook W409 snow tires and some new Toyo Ecilpse for the front so I can drift nicely in the corners at speed on the way to and from work. I also took off the front air dam for the winter and installed a 195 degree stat to keep it nice and toasty when it's in the low teens!

Sounds like your oil gauge doesn't like the cold....

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Hey AT,
That's NOT what usually happens. Most have to rest up AFTER Christmas!
Not even on the ice?
You really have that fine tuned.
This is one of them "Mighty 225 Slant Sixes"?
Fuel Water Separator?
You're not using NGK ZFR5Ns? That's what Lorrie has.
Lorrie's HEI system seems to be working famously.
You be careful out there!
You're up in Washington State? Low teens? We've made it into the high teens twice this winter so far. The Philodendrons took quite a hit. Had them covered but the freeze still got them. They'll come back in the Spring. Same thing happened some years ago. Was worried that they had died, But as soon as Springtime came, they took right off and were better than before the freeze. It's done it again. They're just to big to move indoors.
Am hoping that it is just the Oil Pressure Gauge. Can get a replacement for it for under $60.00. It's a 2-5/8" Black Face Stewart Warner Mechanical. They're readily available.

Also, have researched a new Oil Pump. Almost $100.00 from NAPA.

Also found one from Easy Street LLC: Melling High-Volume Oil Pump part # M_66HV HI VOL PUMP - 15% ADDITIONAL VOLUME OF OIL THAN STOCK PUMP. 3.40" Bore; gh-volume replacement oil pump. Durable cast-iron body. Outputs up to 15% more oil than a stock oil pump. Includes oil pump mounting gasket. Product Features: 1/4" larger gears and housing produce 15% higher volume of oil than the stock replacement oil pump, helping to solve low oil volume issues (my bold face added). Precision-engineered gears and cast-iron body provide consistent and reliable performance. Includes oil pump mounting gasket and instructions to complete installation. $80.99.

Anyway, weather is a bit warmer today. South wind pushing the cold air North.

Am going to see if my neighbor will come help me get some of the ATF out of Lorrie's A727 Transmission. Am going to take the cooling line loose, direct them into a large porcelain pot and have him start the engine while I make sure the flow all goes into the pot. Then will re-bottle the extracted fluid and put it back in a little at a time with the Transmission hot to get it to where it is not over-filled again.

Isn't this fun?

Stay warm.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Have just ordered a NEW Stewart Warner SW82406 2-5/8" Oil Pressure Gauge. Total with shipping is $55.31. Supposed to be here next Tuesday or Wednesday.

Am hoping that the problem with having only 40 PSI of Oil Pressure is the Gauge.

Am thinking that it is the Gauge going bad because when Lorrie starts the Pointer goes to 28 PSI. Tapping on the Gauge makes it go up to almost 40 PSI. Revving the Engine makes it go to 40 PSI, but it won't go any further.

If the NEW Gauge does the same thing, then am going to suspect that the Oil Pump is wimping out.

It is the Oil Pump that was on the Engine when Lorrie came to live with me in 1975.

Will let you all know what happens when it happens.

Take care.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

You can always shim the relief spring to bump up the pressure a little...just remove the nut on the bottom of the pump and install a small nut (1/8" or so is about right to fit under the spring and provide a little tension).
This is a really good way to wipe out the pump gear, and the cam gear that drives the pump and distributor since the fatter rotor tend to put more pressure on the gears trying to push more oil volume...

FYI.

-D.Idiot

Hey Mr. DI,
Will install the NEW Oil Pressure Gauge to see if the problem lies there. If the old OPG has fritzed, the problem is solved. If it hasn't, then it will be a matter of finding out where the problem lies. Don't think that the Pressure Relief Valve is the culprit, but one never knows until one goes on the hunt for the cause. Had noticed in doing the research that Daniel had written an article about servicing the Pressure Relief Valve. So gave that a shot. It seemed to be in GREAT shape. All that was done was to remove the 15/16" Bolt, remove the Spring and Shuttle Body, clean them and then reinstall.
Good point! Was not thinking of that as a possibility. While this unit is only $80.00, shipping was another $25.00, which brought the total to over $105.00. Found that NAPA could get a replacement Pump for under $100.00, and no shipping. And would have my neighbor's wife pick it up on her way home from work. BUT, will not do anything about that till after the NEW Oil Pressure Gauge is installed to see if indeed the Oil Pressure is down around 40 PSI. The fact that the Gauge initially registers 28 PSI and then when tapped on, it goes up to 38 PSI, and then to 40 PSI when the Engine is revved is a pretty good indicator that the Gauge is doing something weird.

Will just have to wait and see.
What will be will be.
Time will tell.
Be well.
JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

It's not the culprit, but on stock units you can increase the oil pressure slightly by doing the procedure I mentioned...I actually do this on my engines with a new melling or old stock pump as the shim process
brings the regular OP up 10 more PSI...so once you replace the gauge if you want a little more pressure (just in case) pull the cap and install the shim and replace). This sometimes helps on old loose engines as well.

-D.Idiot

Hey Mr. DI, Alright, I see what you mean now.
Well, before this latest noticeable drop in Oil Pressure, Lorrie was running at 65 PSI at speed, and 60 PSI at Idle. As mentioned, she is now putting up just at 40 when revved up. If the NEW Gauge also shows the OP at 40 PSI, will consider the shimming just to see if that would help.
Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six was rebuilt in 1986 and has only a little over 25,000 miles on it. Am hoping that it hasn't gotten to be an "old loose engine".

One thing that was mentioned some time ago: When I rebuilt Lorrie's Engine that might be worth mentioning again: It was the first Engine rebuild that I had ever done. Then in 1989, I rebuilt the Ford FE 390 Police Interceptor Engine in Ms. American 3.14159, the only 1964 Ford Galaxie 500 Four-Door, Hard-Top, Fast-Back Police Interceptor that Google finds on the whole World Wide Web. Had a fellow (Howard Williams) who was a retired Holman Moody Line Chief mentoring the rebuild. When it came to tightening the Rod Cap Bearings Bolts, I tightened them to torque specs and was ready to go on with the rest of the rebuild, but Howard said that that wasn't the way that Rod Caps were installed. He told me to really put some torque on the Nuts and upon doing that, all of a sudden what is called "Bearing Crush" happened and it took some more tightening to get the Nuts to come up to torque specs.

The reason I mention this here is that I didn't know about "Bearing Crush" when building Lorrie's Engine and so the Bearing were not tightened to where they "crushed". Have always kind of worried about that.

Have mentioned it to a number of engine builders and they said not to worry. But I do.

Could THAT possibly be what has caused the drop in the OP?

If that is a factor, couldn't the Rod Bearings be replaced without taking the Engine out of Chassis?

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to comment. It is greatly appreciated.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

That is pretty high oil pressure for a stock pump unless you have modified it like DI mentioned. Normally they put out 45 lbs. at speed on down to 30 lbs at idle. Your oil gauge may have been off all along.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Hey Mr. AT,
Have not done any modification to the Pressure Relief Valve. Had the 15/16" Bolt, the Spring, and the Shuttle Body out and they were fine. No shims.
Just looked up what normal Oil Pressure should be in a Chilton's Dodge Manual and it says: 55 PSI.

Something to consider: Lorrie was purchased from the Houston USPS in 1975. They had their own shop that did all the maintenance on the Postal Vehicles. They could have put a different Oil Pump on the old girl. This is the pump that was on Lorrie when she was bought.
When the NEW Stewart Warner SW82406 Oil Pressure Gauge gets here and installed, we will see what it says.

Have to say that when the U-Joint came apart on the day before Christmas, Lorrie got a pretty good shaking from the vibration. Could it be that the vibration could have done something? Like mess up the Gauge, or maybe do something to the Oil Pickup Tube? Actually, until the NEW Gauge gets here, am going to be letting Lorrie sit except on Monday she will have to go to the grocery store as we'll be out of food around here. Will be going about 30 MPH for about five miles. Have driven her to heat up the Transmission and she seems to do fine. Not making any untoward sounds or anything. Engine runs smooth. Am hoping that what is going on is not going to damage Lorrie.

Will just have to wait and see.
What will be will be.
Time will tell.
Be well.
JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Mr. AT and all,
Have a mea culpa to perform here.

I misspoke when I wrote that Lorrie was putting up 65 PSI at speed and 60 PSI at idle. I have been misreading the Oil Pressure Gauge all along thinking it was at 65 PSI. Lorrie has actually been putting up 55 PSI at speed and 50 PSI at idle. Sorry about that. My bad. Didn't actually notice it till the NEW Stewart Warner SW82406 Oil Pressure Gauge got here (last night at 8:20 p.m.) via UPS and it got installed this morning by 10:00 a.m.

Before doing anything, the Element in the Frantz Oil Cleaner got replaced. The reason for doing this was to see if the Oil Pump was pumping Oil through the Frantz System. Wanted to confirm that it was, because had noticed yesterday, after running our errands that the Frantz Canister was not hot. It usually gets hot from Oil being circulated through it.

So this morning, after installing the NEW Gauge, started Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six Engine. It started right up. The NEW Oil Pressure Gauge went smoothly up to 39 PSI at idle and after warming up, when the engine was revved up it went to 40 PSI, but it wouldn't show more than that.

Checked the Element in the Frantz Oil Cleaner and it was saturated with oil so there IS oil going through the FOC. Don't know why it didn't get hot yesterday.

Am afraid that the Oil Pump has just worn out after thirty-nine years of living with me, and no telling how much longer it had been on the Engine before that.

Am going to get a replacement from NAPA. They can have it here by tomorrow evening.

Here is the part. It is supposed to fit a 1967 Dodge P200 3/4 ton Step Van's 225 Slant Six Engine.

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Catal ... 0191854717

Notice that it is a Five-Bolt Pump and is supposed to replace the Six-Bolt Pump that is on Lorrie right now.

Have a question: Should the Oil Pan be drained before removing the Oil Pump? There are two manuals here that don't mention that that is necessary on a 225 Slant Six. They say to do it when removing the Oil Pump from Dodge V8s though.

The installation of the NEW Stewart Warner Oil Pressure Gauge went it perfectly. It doesn't leak and it doesn't have the "glitch" of sticking at 25 PSI and needed tapping that the OLD S/W OPG had. Alas, it didn't solve the low oil pressure problem.

So Lorrie is getting a NEW Oil Pump.

Will let you know how it goes.

Hope this finds you all doing well.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

I wouldn't change the pump. Mine is reading similar pressures on my daily driver.
Don't worry about it!

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Hey Mr. AT,
Have already ordered the Oil Pump. Lorrie's engine is not happy at 40 PSI. There is a marked difference in how she used to run and how she runs now. Am afraid that the mighty 225 Slant Six wouldn't live very long the way she is running now. Am going to change it out. Would rather not take the chance with it.

Anyway, am going to go out this afternoon and remove the OLD Oil Pump. Am not going to drain the Oil Pan. Will see what happens.

Will update as soon as there is something about which to report.

Hang in there.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor