| Slant Six Forum https://slantsix.org/forum/ |
|
| Slant 6 Engine Combination Query https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54903 |
Page 1 of 2 |
| Author: | Bare Metal Maz [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Slant 6 Engine Combination Query |
Hi S6F, have loved reading all the helpful posts and checking out all the fantastic rides. Finally I have a question of my own I'd like to pose. I live in Brisbane (Australia) and have a 1965 AP6 Regal Valiant that I have been working on for a number of years. Will attach picture when I work out how... It is a daily driven family car (equipped with baby seat in the back) and is meant to be a strong comfortable cruiser. Car weighs 2807lbs (1273kg), has stock 904 trans/converter, runs a 3.23 rear end and has 185/14/70 tyres. About a year ago I had the original slant six engine rebuilt as the temporary donk had a compression issue on #6 cyclinder. The specs of the new engine are as follows: 0.06" bore (232.7ci) 0.1" removed of block 0.06" removed of head 9.87:1 comp comp cams 264s solid cam pocket port cylinder heads with 1.7"in & 1.44" ex stailess valves and V8 springs hi-tec extractors (headers) into 2.25" single exhaust system stock two barrel intake and carter 2bbl carby stock points ignition (timing set at around 6 deg btc) runs on 98 octane Engine has been strong and reliable but can ping occasionally (note timing setting) at times of high load so I need to be mindful when pushing it. Final upgrades which will be going in sortly: HEI Electronic ignition conversion Aussiespeed 4 barrel long runner intake 465 vac sec Holley carb K&N air filter My question is this: I understand the 264s cam is not "perfect" for this combination, what recomendations/suggestions for cam would you suggest? Is there anything in the final setup that you would change/consider? Once again love the forum and look forward to any feedback. Bare Metal Maz |
|
| Author: | sandy in BC [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I went from the Comp 264 to an Erson 280/270. My build was similar to yours. It made a big difference. |
|
| Author: | DusterIdiot [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Just say no to the 264... |
Quote: I went from the Comp 264 to an Erson 280/270.
x2If going to the long runner intake the Erson 270/270 or the Erson 280/270 will do the job nicely...(bumping the compression ratio up to a little over 10:1 will bring dividends to your upgrade)...I will say from experience that the Holley 465 is a mixed bag...It has bores similar to the 600 with a slightly smaller venturi and slightly smaller throttle plates...I got better mileage out of the holley 390, and got better overall power than the 465 out of a properly setup 600 with annular boosters...the 465 typically got the same mileage as the 600, and a little less power...I even went so far as to have a set of downleg annular boosters installed in the primaries on the 465 to try and bump up the signal and metering on the primaries for daily driving...but never got a gain out of that mod ($$$ out the window). Recurving an EI distributor with the HEI mod will top your build with a cherry... -D.Idiot |
|
| Author: | 69 vf valiant [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
g'day bare maz. mate i to have heard the 390 holley or 500cfm square bore eddy is the way to go. as for cams my old mate /6 guru says get your std cam reground by tighe cams in brizzy. he runs split ground cams made by tighes & says it's best to talk to dean tighe about what your doing & he'll grind you a spciffic grind to suit your needs. cheers bud. |
|
| Author: | Bare Metal Maz [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks for the replies guys. Duster, yeh I read the group buy a while back on the Erson Cams. Are they still able to supply the 280/270 cams to Oz? VF Val, will get in touch with dean @ tighes. Any idea guys of the end power /torque figures I might achieve. I'm interested in "driver feel" but would like to get an indication. Remember stock numbers for the 160HP slant engine in Oz were Power: 160 bhp (119 kW) at 4400rpm Torque: 220 lb-ft (298 Nm) at 2400rpm. |
|
| Author: | Charrlie_S [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Slant 6 Engine Combination Query |
Quote:
0.06" bore (232.7ci)
Are you sure of the comp ratio? I really can't tell with out the deck hight and combustion chamber volume, but with that much cut off the deck and head, I think it should be higher.0.1" removed of block 0.06" removed of head 9.87:1 comp Bare Metal Maz Just guessing, with some numbers Deck .087, combustion chamber 50 cc, gasket .041 will give a little over 10-1 |
|
| Author: | Bare Metal Maz [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yes, I'm sure the comp ratio is correct. I have the paperwork at home (somewhere...). I raised that issue with the engine builder at the time. 0.16" off is quite a lot! But even if the comp ratio is a little over 10 it shouldn't make too much of a difference from where it is now. |
|
| Author: | Charrlie_S [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: Yes, I'm sure the comp ratio is correct. I have the paperwork at home (somewhere...). I raised that issue with the engine builder at the time. 0.16" off is quite a lot! But even if the comp ratio is a little over 10 it shouldn't make too much of a difference from where it is now.
Over 10-1 with that cam, I think, is the reason you have pinging.
|
|
| Author: | Joshie225 [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I will pile on the suggestion of the Erson 280/270, the unsuitability of the Holley 465 and the positive Edelbrock 500 carburetor reccommendation. I've done a couple of Holley 390s and the throttle transition from just off idle to the main circuit was never more than just acceptable. |
|
| Author: | Bare Metal Maz [ Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Erson 280/270 camshaft - where can I buy one? |
Hi guys, Really struggling to find a supplier for the Erson 280/270 cam. Who can I talk to to get one delivered to Oz? Will also be talking to Tighe Cams in thenext little while. Bare Metal Maz |
|
| Author: | SlantSteve [ Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
G'day.....have a talk to Pete Waggott at Alstonville,what he doesn't know about cams ain't worth knowing...he does aviation approved work so he's good. Just got a regrind from him,nice work as usual.Wade cams down in Melbourne also do good work. I believe they did the original pacer cams,but don't quote me on that one. A regrind may work better for you considering how much you've decked it,with a new billet you may well need new custom push rod$$. Welcome! |
|
| Author: | DusterIdiot [ Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Just from the hip... |
Quote: But even if the comp ratio is a little over 10 it shouldn't make too much of a difference from where it is now.
The comp cam is a short overlap cam so, he'll ping all the time, the Erson 270-280 adv. duration will increase that overlap to bleed down the compression so it's manageable. (Comp Cam 264 Overlap is about 44 degrees, the Erson 280/270 is closer to 53-58 depending on the LSA requested)Given some assumptions that we have an average drool tube head 60's 225. he's about 10.38:1 compression "IF", the head started at 58cc, the aussie gasket compresses to .042, and his original deck height was .185....(giving 48 cc chamber is generous with a .06 cut, .085 deck with the .100 cut)...If his chamber was closer to 56 cc, then his compression is closer to 10.7:1.... My DCR calc says he's at about 8.7 to 9:1 DCR...which is pretty high for the street and almost wants race octane on the short cam (I run a little more with the high 11-12:1 race motor which is OK on Super but really likes more timing on 110 Leaded)...With a stock Erson 280/270 (230/220 @.050), with the 111 stock LSA and installed at 107 centerline it drops the DCR to about 8.15, which is very manageable on US crap octane with the proper distributor recurve... 2 cents, -D.Idiot |
|
| Author: | slantsik [ Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Gday. Hows about as a temporary solution ,running higher octane fuel. United service stations have 100 octane fuel. Being in Bris -_vegas ,one should be close by. Here is a list of united servos that stock it. http://www.unitedpetroleum.com.au/unite ... store-list Or You might consider adding some Nulon octane booster. About $30 Per bottle but . Might be a 500ml bottle . Cant remember.. You may only need 250ml per tank . You may also want to try a cold air intake. I have been recommended tighes cams by my local engine builder. Hope this helps. Brendan. |
|
| Author: | Bare Metal Maz [ Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks for the feedback guys - really appreciate it! Will post up the exact specs as provided to me by the engine builder - I know where that piece of paper is floating around... I actually do carry round a bottle of the octane booster just in case. I used it the other night when caught out in the middle of nowhere low on fuel and they only had 95 octane. I used a bottle of the octane boost prior to Mopar Sunday at Willowbank, QLD (google it guys - it's a great event!) and the engine never pinged once - even under full throttle/load. Should post this up in the next day or two. Thanks again guys - love this forum! Bare Metal Maz |
|
| Author: | DusterIdiot [ Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | It shouldn't... |
Quote: even under full throttle/load.
It shouldn't ping ever under full throttle as that reduces the vacuum advance to zero (if it pings there, then your curve or timing is wrong and needs to be recurved if everything else is in good order) ...so it reduces your timing by 13-22 degrees depending on the vacuum can, compared to the high vacuum part throttle reading...it's under load at part throttle that typically the problem arises.If it all went away with octane booster and intend to keep it as is, you will be filling on a better grade of gas. Most octane boosters we see here are just a bottle of alcohol, just be careful of chronic use of alcohol in our vehicles as it is not friendly to the carburator and some of the parts (especially if the car sits for a while with fuel in the bowl, corrosion of the finish is known to happen). 2 cents, -D.Idiot |
|
| Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC-08:00 |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited https://www.phpbb.com/ |
|