Slant Six Forum :: Amp Rating Question for Direct-Wired Starter

Pierre, thanks for the kind suggestion.

Regarding the post about me wasting money on expensive parts. Well, first off, after going through four poor quality alternators rebuilt in Mexico which I bought at auto parts stores in my area, a friend who is also an amateur racer sold me all the MSD parts for $175.

Mt racer friend has tons of extra parts laying around and sold me the controller unit, coil, distributer and alternator for a measly $175. Still new in the box. And guess what? None of the MSD parts have failed in three years of daily driving.

And since installing the MSD stuff, the engine has never ran better in my opinion. And for the record, the wiring system had Gremlins way before I added on the MSD components.

Live and let live I say. Thanks again for the kind advice Pierre.

Author:	Hatchworx [ Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Amp Rating Question for Direct-Wired Starter
Greetings Friends. Well, long story short, I have been a member of this forum for a decade now but my old account disappeared somehow and I had to start a new one. I have a 1973 Dodge Dart with a Super-6 engine and tranny in it that came out of a 1977 Dodge Monaco before I had it all rebuilt. I am also running a Weber conversion of which I absolutely HATE. I have tried at all costs to get that carb to work right and all it does it bog, bog, bog. I feel like I am drowning the motor but a mechanic buddy of mine thinks I am lean. But this is another conversation for another day. My Frankenstein engine set up is pretty crazy. My anti-mopar buddies call it overkill. But I am running an MSD system and even a high-performance MSD alternator that I had to custom machine mounting brackets for to work but it works great. Unfortunately, my old Dart has electrical gremlins everywhere. But we are talking about a 40-plus-year-old wiring system. Recently I have experienced tons of electrical issues in the ignition sector. To the point where I had to wire up a temporary on-off switch to the starter which enables my key to engage the ignition. I did this as a temporary fix until I can eventually break down and rewire the entire car front to back. My question today is that now my ignition rigging is wearing out after a year now of running the on-off switch to the starter. Keep in mind that this current configuration is not a hotwire scenario. The current on-off switch simply engages the ignition once the key is inserted. However, when the dash gets hot from the summer sun (I live in Georgia where summers are hot) the ignition fails and I have to arc the starter manually with a large screwdriver to start the engine. What I want to do this weekend as a temporary rigging until I can properly rewire the car is that I want to wire up a race car type starter system. You know, I want to wire in an on-off switch between the two poles on the starter. My question is what amp rating should this switch be? I currently have a couple 35-AMP on-off switches in my tool shed that I am not using. They are heavy duty switches but I am unsure if a 35-AMP rating is strong enough for wiring between the poles on the starter. So this is my question guys. Will a 35-AMP switch work? Or do I need a higher amp rated switch? If so, what amp rating should I use? The auto parts stores in my neighborhood have nothing higher than 35-AMP rated switches available. Even the NAPA store does not carry switches higher than 35-AMPS. I know this is a total rig job on my part, but I cannot rewire my car right now as this is my daily driver and I need a quick easy solution. So instead of manually arcing the starter poles with a screwdriver, I can much easier wire in a direct on-off switch between the poles. Your advice is well appreciated. Thanks!

Author:	emsvitil [ Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:
35 amps isn't strong enough. You could wire in a ford type remote starter solenoid......

Author:	Pierre [ Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:35 pm ]
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Please break up your posts into paragraphs so it's a bit easier to read. Instead of putting the switch between the starter and starter solenoid, it would be easier to do it at the starter relay. This way any ordinary low current switch will do. There are two smaller push on terminals on the starter relay. One goes to the neutral safety switch. Remove the wire from the relay. Attach a wire to the relay at this point and ground it. Remove the second small wire. Wire one leg of your switch to it, and the other leg of your switch to battery positive. If you use a momentary push button switch that would be the easiest. Your way with a 35a switch may work, but it will wear the switch in relatively short order.

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Amp Rating Question for Direct-Wired Starter
Plenty of 40-year-old electrical systems carry on working just fine. You don't really need to do anything about the electrical gremlins everywhere in your car -- they will eventually go away when the "high performance alternator" you installed finishes off the wires and other components not even close to being rated to handle the output from an upgraded alternator. Bring long sticks and marshmallows. If it'll make you smile, go for it, but "race car type" hacks and bodges will only continue to worsen the reliability of your already-unreliable car. Quote: Will a 35-AMP switch work? No. Quote: Or do I need a higher amp rated switch? No. You need the correct components to fix the problems with the car. Y'know, parts like...a starter relay, maybe...an ignition switch, maybe...some appropriate wire and terminals, maybe. It will be easier and less expensive than kludging up a bypass switch and another length of wire that doesn't belong.

Author:	Hatchworx [ Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:
Pierre, thanks for the kind suggestion. Regarding the post about me wasting money on expensive parts. Well, first off, after going through four poor quality alternators rebuilt in Mexico which I bought at auto parts stores in my area, a friend who is also an amateur racer sold me all the MSD parts for $175. Mt racer friend has tons of extra parts laying around and sold me the controller unit, coil, distributer and alternator for a measly $175. Still new in the box. And guess what? None of the MSD parts have failed in three years of daily driving. And since installing the MSD stuff, the engine has never ran better in my opinion. And for the record, the wiring system had Gremlins way before I added on the MSD components. Live and let live I say. Thanks again for the kind advice Pierre.

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Author:	Hatchworx [ Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:11 pm ]
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Here's my car for anyone interested.

Author:	nm9stheham [ Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:52 am ]
Post subject:
OK.... more confirmation of waht you need to do is needed; the original post is unlcear. 1) You have a switch that applies 12v to the MSD ignition system in place of the key....is that right? 2) Now you need to activate the starter manually is that right? You mention needing/wanting to wire up a switch between the 2 poles on the starter relay.... so is this a substitute for using the screwdriver between the 2 poles? What this is doing is putting 12v at moderate current to the smaller of the 2 poles, which activates the starter solenoid inside of the starter. You can do this with a 35A switch OK; the current draw into this smaller pole is not terribly high, in the range of 15-20 amps. Just get 12V to the new switch through an added fuse and then route the switch output to the small pole on the starter. Use a spring loaded toggle switch. No gurantees how long this will last.... But it would be easier to send the 12v from this new switch to the post on the starter relay where the yellow wire now goes; remove that yellow wire and use the new switch to route 12v to this post. It'll do the same thing with less current. It will also make sure the neutral safety switch (auto trans) or clutch switch (manual trans) is in the circuit and protecting you, and which will prevent you from accidentally starting the car while in gear. No gurantees that this is a wise thing to do over fixing the actual ignition switch problems. I would not do it myself... but I have other cars to drive.

Author:	mattelderca [ Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:08 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Pierre, thanks for the kind suggestion. Regarding the post about me wasting money on expensive parts. Well, first off, after going through four poor quality alternators rebuilt in Mexico which I bought at auto parts stores in my area, a friend who is also an amateur racer sold me all the MSD parts for $175. Mt racer friend has tons of extra parts laying around and sold me the controller unit, coil, distributer and alternator for a measly $175. Still new in the box. And guess what? None of the MSD parts have failed in three years of daily driving. And since installing the MSD stuff, the engine has never ran better in my opinion. And for the record, the wiring system had Gremlins way before I added on the MSD components. Live and let live I say. Thanks again for the kind advice Pierre. All I see is a fire hazard under that hood. Sorry, but there is a large taped up connection of some kind by the alternator, there are multiple battery feeds with no fuses, and one of those see through fuel filters. There are also many unprotected wires going all over under there. I have to side with Dan here, get the wiring back as close to stock as you can and sort out the issues along the way. With that new alt you may be overloading the original harness and that could be some of your issue. When you upgrade to a heavier alt. you need to provide a proper path for the new current back to battery. The original bulkhead connector is just not up to the task. Adding switches and shorting terminals is just not the way to go about it. Sorry, but years working on automotive electrical systems (some for a living) have left me fearful of what some people consider acceptable. I'm a very minor player on this forum and my advice may seem harsh but it's in your best interest, as was Dan's.

Author:	63Valiant [ Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:20 am ]
Post subject:
Nice car there! You wiring really needs a cleaning. And these guys are correct, fix it right. I don't understand the thinking behind spending hundreds of dollars on upgrades, but not spending the $40 or so for a new ignition switch and relay. It almost sounds like your preference is to have the repair mickey moused? Quote: Plenty of 40-year-old electrical systems carry on working just fine. You don't really need to do anything about the electrical gremlins everywhere in your car -- they will eventually go away when the "high performance alternator" you installed finishes off the wires and other components not even close to being rated to handle the output from an upgraded alternator. Bring long sticks and marshmallows. X2, my Valiant is 51 years old and shows it, but the electrical system works fine. Not hacking it and making proper repairs keeps it that way. Minimally if you are running a high output alternator you need to run the proper gauge wire from it to the battery so it will charge it directly without burdening your original wiring that was not designed for the high output. Do some searching here, Dan has written instructions on a good way to do this more than once. Otherwise, yep, you'll be roasting marshmallows.

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