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| MSI to MS3X - just plug n play, apparently... https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56387 |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | MSI to MS3X - just plug n play, apparently... |
I just lined up the wiring diagrams for the main board on the MS3X and my old MSI. It appears I can just plug my MS3 into the MSI harness and relay board and run it! Can't see any problem with it. Should have it running with the same TBI setup but new ECU this weekend... This will not have ignition control or anything, but will get me using and tuning with the new ECU and using my WBO2 for feedback. Thoughts or comments? Lou |
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| Author: | Greg Ondayko [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I could see that somewhat working but how to interpolate the data points in the ms1 tune / firmware to the ms3 tune / firmware would be the interesting part. I I think you are going 8x8 to 16 x 16. and of course you will have to setup all the settings in your new tuner studio file with all the correct triggers etc. but yes it will physically plug, but will it play? I think there would be some more effort and thought put into that end of it. Greg |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | cool |
Hi Greg, Thanks for the input. I was hoping you would chime in. I realize I will have to fully program the MS3 unit from scratch. I will just enter values by hand into all tables and menus, based on known running parameters in my MS1. I kinda like doing that because then I have an up-to-date imprint in my mind of all that data, reinforced by typing and looking at every number. Then I can tune, or autotune, from there. I posted this question to the msefi.com forum as well, so we'll see what pops up. I ran through all the wiring diagrams and looked at the car again last night and I think I will try this over the weekend. Mostly, I don't want to burn anything out on the MS3X in case some pin does not play nice with my current wiring. It seems this is not an issue... Thanks! Lou |
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| Author: | Matt Cramer [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
If you're doing a bank to bank fuel only setup, or using the LEDs for spark output, yep. You just need to drop the MS3 daughter board on there and don't have to change the wiring, at least not until you start adding the features off the MS3X board. |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks, Matt. I will do this on the weekend and report back... Ciao, Lou |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | No plug'n'play - bummer |
Well, I plugged my existing MS1 cable and relay board into my MS3X controller and it will not pulse the injectors. Everything else seems to work - all sensors are reading, ignition trigger signal reads... I knew it was too good to be true. Still trying to figure out why, since the input/output wiring diagrams look essentially identical. Only thing I can figure is that somehow the MS3 injector outputs cannot deal with my TBI injectors? Also, I have pins 34 and 35 tied together and 32 and 33 tied together (in pairs), but apparently there are 4 output driver transistors. The MS3/MS3X manual says this is OK, but I am suspicious. I wonder if the MS3X somehow has the standard MS3 injector outputs disabled. I am getting no pulses on priming or cranking and the computer says it is getting a spark signal from the ignition (MSD box). Baffled, Lou |
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| Author: | Pierre [ Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Have you gone through the injector settings? The TBI injectors I'm familiar with are high current (low impedance) - if it's not set appropriately in software they may not fire. |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | A-hah... hopefully |
Hi Pierre, I did not see a setting specifically for low-z in TunerStudio using MS3, and I don't think the impedance affects whether it will pulse during prime/cranking. HOWEVER, I am SO glad you asked about this, Pierre. I just checked my basic settings and I stoopidly had forgotten to change the fuel outputs from MS3X aux card to "std" (main board). Going to try it now... Thanks a bunch! Lou |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | worked, mostly... |
Thanks again, Pierre. That worked to get the injectors firing. Great! Now it runs, but is reading erratic RPM, so obviously the ignition input is not compatible with the board settings or software settings. I played around with noise filtering and rising/falling edge and that did not help. I am using the tach output from my Jacobs Ignition to give MS an ign signal, which is nominally a 12 V square wave. It looks like I should use the "coil negative" trigger setup with optoisolator on the mainboard rather than the 12V Hall sensor setup (currently in use) in case there is noise riding on my wires. I'll try that. Progress... Lou |
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| Author: | sandy in BC [ Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
.....Ill Just nod and smile....optoisolator.....yes.... |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks, Sandy.  I decided to take a breather and plug the MS1 back in for my trip this week. Car runs pretty darn good... I had not plugged my wideband O2 into the MS1 because I thought I needed to fiddle with settings for the 0-5V range. Turns out you can just run it as is. Back to closed loop mode, which is nice... Cheers, Lou |
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| Author: | Pierre [ Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Glad to be of service Lou lol. Makes sense on the input choice as a hall effect would need/expect an a/c wave (negative voltage) to do anything. |
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| Author: | Sam Powell [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I am lurking here. Maybe I will learn something. I eagerly await the next chapter. Sam |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
After my two trips with the Dart recently, I am now focusing on the V2 Valiant a bit. Not sure when I'll get back to the EFI stuff, but will keep everyone updated. Lou |
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| Author: | Sam Powell [ Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I would suggest continuing to run your MS I while you work out a steady rpm trigger, isolated and separate from the MS I rpm read which is not effected by noise, since this is critical to controlling timing correctly. I would put a trigger wheel on the crank, mount a sensor, and get that working to trigger your MSIII when you plug it in. You can then switch back and forth while you work the bugs out knowing you can get it running easily with MS I as you toy with MS III. You are always a plug swap away from restoring it to known quantity. That said I am glad to see you taking in interest in V. Sam |
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