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More oil for the oil pump drive gear?
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57509		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  ProCycle [ Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  More oil for the oil pump drive gear?
Today I'm staring at my oil pump getting ready to do the gear oiling modification shown in this thread
--> http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic ... c4a9134476

Looking at the whole system it looks like I can accomplish much the same thing in a simpler way.
I'm thinking about drilling a .030" hole from near the top of the upper oil passage down at an angle so it squirts oil onto the distributor gear which would transport the oil to the cam gear.

I'd drill the hole where the silver dot is in the pic below.
The casting is only about 1/4" thick right there.
It would be plenty high to avoid draining off the oil gallery.
Any comments?
Image
Author:  '67 Dart 270 [ Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  DD's article
Author:  ProCycle [ Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
I missed that part, or didn't quite grasp it when I read it.
Looks like I'm reinventing the wheel :D

So I went ahead and drilled. First in about 1/8" with a 1/8" bit. Then the rest of the way through very carefully with a .035" bit.

In retrospect it would definitely be easier to drill a bigger hole and press in a roll pin.
Less chance of breaking a tiny drill bit off on the hole. I guess I just like to live dangerously.

The result with a light behind it to show the hole.
Photo makes it look off center but that must be some weird reflection.
Image
Author:  '67 Dart 270 [ Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  oiling
Doesn't this counterweight, aligned with the cam drive gear and oil pump gear, splash oil onto those gears?

Does the 0.030 hole in the main galley actually spray oil onto the gears, has that been verified?

Is this modification generally done for racing only? I ask because I've had two gear failures and I'm about to zip up my long block...

brian
Author:  ProCycle [ Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Well, I'm no expert but the people who are experts believe more oil on the gears is needed. In this case the hole is about 3/8" away from the nylon distributor gear. Oil squirting out of that hole at 30 psi can't possibly miss. Probably a lot will splash off but there would still be a lot of oil adhering the the nylon gear that will be transferred to the cam gear.

Hmm... I'd like to modify the shape of the hole so it sprays a wide cone instead of a tight stream...[/i]
Author:  '67 Dart 270 [ Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  oil spray
I think if you're getting a stream onto the nylon gear, that should be sufficient, it'll spread out on the teeth as it rotates and engages the other gears.

If you were to use a roll pin, would it be to put the end of it closer to the gear to ensure the oil hits the target?

thanks,

Brian
Author:  '67 Dart 270 [ Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  roll pin
So, I figure it must be a 1/16" roll pin, which would have an ID of about 0.038 when compressed into the hole should be about right.

Would anyone have the roll pin sticking out closer to the gear to ensure the stream hits the target or not necessary given the pressure?

Drill the hole a bit lower to shoot onto the middle of the teeth of the nylon gear?

thoughts?

brian
Author:  '67 Dart 270 [ Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  porshe
My buddy told me that Porsche and BMW use nozzles that spray oil onto the back of the pistons, they are pressure actuated, so at low pressure they don't spray, but under stress conditions they spray oil onto the back of the pistons.

http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E36-M3-S52_3.2L/ES23948/

http://www.vertexauto.com/ShowItem/4433 ... ndard.aspx

Might be a nice way to do the extra oiling on slant gears, as it wouldn't drain the galley on shut down, you could put it lower to spray on the teeth of the dizzy gear. I bet they get clogged easily though...

brian
Author:  SlantSteve [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: porshe
Quote:
My buddy told me that Porsche and BMW use nozzles that spray oil onto the back of the pistons, they are pressure actuated, so at low pressure they don't spray, but under stress conditions they spray oil onto the back of the pistons.

http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E36-M3-S52_3.2L/ES23948/

http://www.vertexauto.com/ShowItem/4433 ... ndard.aspx

Might be a nice way to do the extra oiling on slant gears, as it wouldn't drain the galley on shut down, you could put it lower to spray on the teeth of the dizzy gear. I bet they get clogged easily though...

brian
If you are near an airport find an engine overhaul shop that does piston engines and ask for a Lycoming piston cooling nozzle,they are replaced at overhaul...if memory serves me they are about 1/16" npt thread and they have a valve that opens at about 7 psi ..part number 73772. Alternatively,can you direct the return oil from the lifter cavity onto the gear?
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Would anyone have the roll pin sticking out closer to the gear to ensure the stream hits the target
Doc modifies the pumps with a tube that comes out right behind the oil pump gear. Sorry I don't have a picture and my pumps are both in vehicles.
Rick
Author:  '67 Dart 270 [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:27 am ]
Post subject:  Dd
Yes, I've seen DD's article, thanks Rick. That one takes a bit more work than the .0030 hole in the main galley, but I'm considering it. Right now I'm focusing on the former modification at the moment, wondering whose done it, how it worked, any issues.

When I Googled "oil squirter" as they are (apparently) commonly called, I found a lot of references to systems where they use a tube setup very similar to DD's tube, i.e. a tube with a clamp that bolts to the inside of the block and feeds from an oil galley. For example,

http://s785.photobucket.com/user/67dart ... 1.jpg.html

There are lots of references to using these in other formats and/or modifying them for better oiling. These seem like "off the shelf" items that could easily be used to spray onto the gears.

The little hole in the main galley intrigues me though, seems like a perfect spot and a very simple way to go. Anyone done this who can shed more light on it, i.e. a pic of the roll pin version anything like that?

brian
Author:  '67 Dart 270 [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:31 am ]
Post subject:  sprayer
Thanks SlantSteve for that reference, I'll look that up. I figure if one uses a pressure threshold sprayer it would be the best way unless they get clogged, which I'm now reading that they often do.

Put another way, if the little hole in the galley does the trick, I'd figure it's less likely to get clogged as it is a bigger hole, though small.

brian
Author:  '67 Dart 270 [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Lycoming nozzle
Yes, Steve, that's even better than the Porsche and BMW ones because of those handy threads you mentioned:

http://www.aircraft-specialties.com/noz ... ing-73772/

But the question is whether it might be a bit too long to fit in that spot. The dizzy gear is only 3/8" from the inside of the block where the oil galley resides.

One would need one exactly like that, but a bit shorter nozzle end.

Good stuff.

Brian
Author:  '67 Dart 270 [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  piston cooling jet
IF you google "piston cooling jet" you hit the mother load of info on these.

Many of them look like this: http://s785.photobucket.com/user/67dart ... x.png.html

Clearly these have much larger holes than 0.030 and aren't valved; I'm wondering if that 0.030 diameter was chosen as a "safe bet" so as not to unduly reduce pressure in the system. Put another way, if one were to put a larger hole in the oil galley to bathe the gears in oil, would the pressure need to be adjusted upward to compensate for it?

brian
Author:  '67 Dart 270 [ Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  spray nozzles...
Seems like you racers might want to drill the oil galley that runs along the block, tap it and add those screw in sprayers SlantSteve pointed out to spray the lifters/cam all along it's length. I wonder if anyone has ever done that.

Though, as I read some of the BMW, Porsche and Bugatti boards, those things get clogged a lot, racers are swapping them out regularly. Sounds like a real pain. But...if you're in your blocks regularly, maybe not so bad since they are threaded.

brian
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