NAPA rebuilt 35 Amp Alternator and new points style Regulator installed in my 65 Dart.

Alternator has two fields....with one fat and one thin connector.
A new NAPA regulator field terminal was connected to the thin alternator field terminal. The other alternator field terminal was untouched.

Initially on startup when smoke came from the regulator and the resistor was very hot I disconnected the ign. terminal.

I found this in the Mar 2015 postings:
" The older '66 regulator can be used with the new alternator if you:
- Connect one lead from the regulator to one field terminal on the alternator
- Ground the other field terminal on the alternator "

Should I be grounding the other fat field terminal on the alternator and would that eliminate the overheating regulator resistor?

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1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/

Something's not right here.

What is the item number of the NAPA alternator you installed?

A '70-up type alternator has one round threaded "BAT" stud, that is the output, and two ¼" flat male spades ("FLD", field terminals). The two field terminals are the same size, and in an installation of such an alternator, the wires that connect to them are also the same size, so I'm not sure where the "fat and thin connectors" are coming in.

What is the number of the regulator you installed?

If you wish to use a '70-up "dual field" alternator in a car with a '69-down regulator, you connect the regulator's "FLD" terminal to either of the alternator's two "FLD" terminals, and then you ground the alternator's other "FLD" terminal. But if you don't ground the alternator's other "FLD" terminal, you won't burn up the regulator -- you'll just have a no-charging situation. Sounds like you might be a recent victim of the enormous drop in quality of parts available for old cars from NAPA.

If the regulator started out good and got hooked up correctly and still ran hot and burned up, the problem is likely that the alternator is drawing more current than the regulator can handle -- a common consequence of the thrown-together, mismatched components that go into "remanufactured" alternators.

(Also: Why using a regulator with resistors on the back in 2015...? There are much, much better options.)

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Thanks you for the prompt look see...

"What is the item number of the NAPA alternator you installed?"

Item # 213-1001
Listed as 35 amp
Buyer's Guide Indicates fits 62 to 69 Dart with 3.7L

Picture of the connections:
http://s296.photobucket.com/user/184pal ... g.jpg.html

"Fat" field terminal points straight up
"Thin" field terminal points towards block

The green wire is going to field terminal of regulator.

When the ign terminal was hooked to regulator for about 1 minute the charge rate was 15 amp and looked good. .....smoke from regulator was the issue and very hot resistor.

"What is the number of the regulator you installed?"

Item # VR32
Buyer's Guided lists for 62 - 68 Dart with any engine

"Why using a regulator with resistors on the back in 2015"

My personal choice is to prove everything works stock before going modified....that way if something goes wrong when I modify I know for sure it's caused by my modification. In this case everything for the charging is all brand new(not new as in manufactured but new to the system....new wiring, new fuse box, rebuilt alternator, new regulator, new grounds......all on a test stand to find problems before the installation.

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1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/

Looks like a '72-up alternator with a self-grounding brush installed in place of what would originally have been an actual wire connection for use with the two field wires of a '70-up charging system.

Either you got a faulty remanufactured alternator, or it's got a later-type rotor with higher amp draw than the VR-32 can handle. Either is entirely believable.

A new alternator (Old Car Parts Northwest probably still has some) is a much more dependable choice than "remanufactured" junk. As for the regulator—I wasn't recommending re-engineering the system, but using something less stone-age than a points-type regulator. Such as a VR-1001, electronic direct replacement for VR-32.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Based on your review it's larger than a 35 amp.
My old dart wiring & connections(like firewall) probably won't react well to a larger alternator if there is a large call for juice sometime like when I leave the lights on.

Once I've got a working system I can try that electronic but I did that electronic before & was unimpressed with the mood swings.
It would go full blast for a bit and then back to a slight discharge
I still have it sitting on the shelf.
I could try it again once I get this working reasonably well.

Off to NAPA tomorrow for them to try again to get me a 35 amp?
I'll show them your write-up to clarify the issue.

If that doesn't work I'll look to new if any are left.

Am I the only guy that erroneously got a non 35 amp from NAPA?
Then it should be correctable?

At least this is all occurring on an engine test stand where I can test for max output of the alternator by draining a battery and then seeing where the alternator takes the amp gauge.

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1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/

I found an article suggesting that a significant gauge wire run from alternator to amp gauge and back to starter relay could make my 65 Dart handle more than 35 amp?

http://www.allpar.com/fix/alternator.html

This could give me another option in ironing out the above alternator issue?

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1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/

That likely won't fix an actual alternator/regulator issue but you will get past very common issues associated with old wires and especially the older connectors on the firewall. You may have a wiring problem elsewhere; see further below.

HOWEVER, your '65 had a pretty good firewall connection that was only on the '63 and '65 A's; the alternator main output and the fusible link to the starter relay go through 2 metal tabs in the firewall, with connection to the tabs made with screws. This is much better than the stab-on Packard terminals used for the rest of the firewall connections AND used for these heavy current connections too for all other year A bodies.

So, if you have the original '65 firewall connector, look to see if there are 2 tab connections for the 2 biggest wires. If so, you can just clean those up and treat them and have as good a connection through the firewall as the wire mods suggested.

The NAPA alternator you got could very well be a 60/65A unit just sold with a 35A label (universal fit in their view). The 2 field connections makes that more likely. They could all be built with the lower resistance rotor. (Which normally does not make a difference as most regulators can usually compensate for that in most situations.....)

OR, your system has a fault elsewhere and the regulator is getting hot due to pushing full amps into the field winding trying to get the voltage to the right level.... and it never gets there due to a bad wire at the alternator output. Or bad wiring to the blue wire feeding to the ignition and regulation system. Or bad wiring in the ignition switch.... yes it can be determined.

Do you have a voltmeter? If not get one and then it can be properly troubleshot. The proper procedures can be laid out if you have a meter.

BTW the suggestion to get a real 35A alternator from OCPNW is an excellent one, IMO, if you really want to stick with the old 35A unit. But upgrading to a later one is common and is usually a good improvement in charging system performance, evne with no increase in load. I stick with the 35A only because I want all original.

And I forgot... .MAKE SURE the regulator is well grounded. Clean/scrape off the contact surfaces on the regulator and car and renew/replace the hold down screws/bolts. The regulator MUST be well grounded to work right, and a poor ground could be causing your symptoms..

Lotsa luck. Why so bound and determined to use inferior parts?
No, everyone who buys what they and every other seller of "remanufactured" garbage describe as a 35 amp alternator gets something random ranging from maybe 45 to about 70.
What kind of amp gauge are you trying this test with?

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

No, I'm pretty sure we've got a {{{citation needed}} type of situation on your idea that the screw-type connection is only on '63 and '65 A-bodies. It's better than a push-on connection, but this what you write:
…is dangerous advice. It incorrectly suggests that the firewall connection is the one and only insufficiency addressed by the wire modification needed (yes, really) to safely accommodate a higher-amp alternator. In fact, the wire gauge itself is insufficient, and the ammeter is a dangerously severe bottleneck.
No, there were 34-amp dual-field alternators installed by the many-thousands as factory equipment.
Not correct. The higher-draw rotor requires a regulator specifically engineered to handle it. Using an alternator (of any output rating) with a high-draw rotor, with a regulator meant for an alternator (of any output rating) with a low-draw rotor, is a sure-fire recipe for quick and smoky regulator death, whether we're talking about pre- or post-'70 regulator types.
There is no such thing as "pushing amps". Current can be pulled, but not pushed.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=355582#355582

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

If you end up buying a NOS alternator best have a close look at it....remember the "O" stands for old! The one I got had fan rubbing problems,when I pulled it down the bearing grease had dried out...I think it would have been in for a very short life if I just installed it out of the box. That being said it's all good with a freshen up.

Actually neither is correct if you really want to get down to the physics, LOL. BTW, I hold and MS in Electrical Engineering and was a staff engineer for Bell Laboratories, and designed lots of electrical/electronic products. Making a big to-do over pushing vs pulling current is silly talk; either is merely a manner of speaking. I understand all you have said very well; no need to get carried away with whatever your points may be; we can go back and forth over ever little item but that does not help the OP or make this forum a pleasant experience for all.

As for the regulator mismatch, they can handle some level of mismatch; a low current regulator can manage a lower winding resistance if the load demand is not high and the regulator can get its output voltage low enough; at the extremes, they do get into trouble. We don't know the battery charge level or other loads to be able to really say in this exact case.

Please come up the citation the 63/65 lugs being on other years of the A's before making it an issue . It is easy enough for the OP to know and actually LOOK to see if this case for him, and that is the main point. I am not talking about the B's.

No argument on the other wire sizes; it can be better but is not generally the prime problem area; it the connections in many areas of the car cause the most issues so should be the main focus. Maybe I should condition my words more in future.

And, while we are being picky, the ammeter is not really a bottleneck; I have not read or seen that it will not flow the proper current with a low voltage drop as it should if in good shape. It's a failure point when parts of it get corroded.

I don't question your credentials, I question your familiarity and understanding of the particular charging systems and parts you're giving advice about.
Neither does giving advice without a solid basis in reality.
In reality, using a regulator for a low-draw rotor with a high-draw rotor will quickly fail the regulator. VR-32 will not handle the high-draw rotor. That's what matters in the case at hand, not vague pronouncements about "some level of mismatch".
Er…no. You're the one making the claim that only those two non-sequential years used a particular configuration. I think you're wrong. It's completely possible I'm wrong on that point, but since you're the one making the claim…we'll let you be the one to support it.
Yeah, it really is, even when it's in brand-new condition and especially when it's not. When you lay eyes on an actual ammeter from one of these actual cars, in actual reality, you will see exactly why that is the case.
It'll flow proper current (i.e., the amount of current it was designed to tolerate). It will not for long flow 2x or 3x the amount of current it was designed to tolerate, and neither will the rest of the charging system circuitry. Your "meh, it'll be fine" advice is not correct, responsible, or helpful.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Brought the alternator and regulator back to NAPA and they changed the Alternator to the "Premium" version. Inside the package was the testing printout for that specific alternator. Apparently "premium" buys you a printout of the test for that alternator. I can supply those results if there is an interest.

Although listed as 35 amp it turns out that is at 2000 rpm. I'm thinking that is alternator rpm because they may not know the diameter of the crank pulley on my particular engine? Consequently the engine RPM is likely near 800 for my engine when the alternator is putting out 35 amp?

The rpm/amp curve showed there is no peak or cutoff...... it just keeps climbing up to 64 amps in my alternator at 6000 rpm.

So it's clear that the 35 amp rating is at a specific rpm of 2000.

The second learning issue was that the regulator instructions (after installation instructions) had a section called "Mechanic's Service Tips".

Service tip #4:
4.) New electro-mechanical regulators may smoke for the first 30 minutes of operation. The resistors under the regulator are varnished to keep the windings in place during manufacture. When the regulator is first turned on, the varnish burns off, occasionally giving off smoke.

So that explains how I had a decent 15 amp charge (with a fully charged battery) even though the regulator looked in trouble. The latest alternator and regulator combo were giving me 13.7 Volts (cold running engine).

Net result was I was concerned about a problem when there wasn't one....at least on the test stand with it's heavy gauge wiring, fully charged battery, and 60 amp charging gauge.

Although NAPA is pursuing with the manufacturer a true 35 amp alternator (at 6000 rpm) I'm thinking of making the mods to the Dart itself to accept a readily available 60 amp alternator (with documented testing data). NAPA had 5 of them in the local warehouse.

So my focus is on upgrading the Dart to accept 60 amp alternator.

Question about the 10 ga wire from alternator to battery with fuse mod:
What would happen if it had an under hood 60 amp gauge in it?
Would the underhood and dash amp gauges read half the actually total current flow because they appear to be in parallel?

My Dart has an underhood fuse box directly tied to the alternator, That box provides current to the HEI relay, Lower and Upper Headlight Relays, Electric fan Relay, and Power Seat & Computerized Shoulder Harness Restraint System. Maybe that can remain as is with the 10 ga wire addition?

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1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/