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 Post subject: Adjusting timing
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:11 pm 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:59 am
Posts: 65
Location: Finland
Car Model:
I'm going to buy a timing gun today and then i'll set the slanty timing and hook up the vacuum hoses correctly and then adjust the carb last.

How do i check the timing
What do i change the timing to?
What is the number i need to put the timing mark to on the metal plate with numbers on it?

Engine is a stock super six.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:38 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:25 pm
Posts: 5611
Location: Downeast Maine
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Timing light will come with directions for use.
Quote:
How do i check the timing
What do i change the timing to?
What is the number i need to put the timing mark to on the metal plate with numbers on it?
Red lead to + battery
Black lead to - battery
Plug wire clip on to number 1 plug wire.

Down at harmonic balance/damper there is a scale +10, +5, 0, -5, -10 or such indicating + degrees of advance BTDC, to - degrees of advance ATDC, zero being at top dead center of piston stroke. There will be a notch on balancer at edge of fan belt that will look to be floating somewhere within the +10 to zero scale attached to timing cover. That is how one reads base timing.


Adjustment of timing is accomplished by loosening clamping device at base of distributor where it enters into the block casting, and rotating distributor a few degrees left or right while observing timing gun illuminated notch on balancer. Dial in desired base timing, tighten down clamp to lock it in. Timing may change a bit as distributor is clamped down because its gear driven off of the cam shaft will set deeper into it; think ring (cam gear), and pinion (distributor drive gear)

Also if idle rpm is not low enough sometimes mechanical advance will add a degree or two. Also disconnect vacuum advance vacuum line while setting base time.

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 Post subject: Looks like...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:58 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:27 pm
Posts: 9714
Location: Salem, OR
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You have a late car, so timing specs will be on the drivers side fender if still intact. The timing tabs starting in 1979 have a probe tube and are labelled 0-30, these are BTDC. If the balancer has not slipped and the distributor is still the stock one your fender sticker will be accurate.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:58 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 13092
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model: 76 D100
For a 1980 slant timing will be in the 8-12 BTDC range.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:43 pm 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:59 am
Posts: 65
Location: Finland
Car Model:
Quote:
For a 1980 slant timing will be in the 8-12 BTDC range.
So +8 is ok? and -8 is not ok?



So i take the vacuum advance off and set the timing to 8-12 number on the scale and then put the vacuum advance on and check how the timing behaves?


It's currently set up by ear.

EDIT:

Okay after some research, i need to set it before top dead center so the air fuel mixture ignites before the piston reaches up to compress the mixture..

So If i set it on the scale on my timing cover at any number between 8-12 it'll be ok?

So if i set the timing at 10 on the mark before the center line then it'll be good?

And i need to set the timing on idle rpm's and the vacuum hose from the dist disconnected? After i set the timing, i put the vacuum hose to the correct spot and it's ok?

Is it really that simple?

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 Post subject: Careful...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:27 pm
Posts: 9714
Location: Salem, OR
Car Model:
Quote:
For a 1980 slant timing will be in the 8-12 BTDC range.
That would be about right for a domestic/ US slanted vehicle, he will have to verify from his fender sticker on the correct timing, and may have to pull the distributor to check the part number... I know of one distributor 3874929 of this era that was for the F-body 225-1 barrel Automatic outside the US (no cat, but with air pump), the specs were to set base timing at 2 ATDC....this particular dizzy has an 11R slot and a super six vacc. adv. can to make up for the lack of initial....

If his is 3874876, then he's good to go....
Quote:
It's currently set up by ear.
You should set it for best vacuum off a gauge connected to a manifold constant vacuum tap... set it, then hook everything back up and drive it...if it pings/rattles, you will have to retard the timing 2 degrees and do it again until you don't get anymore ping.

Quote:
So if i set the timing at 10 on the mark before the center line then it'll be good?
If you have the 0-30 with tube timing tab, then yes 10 will be 10BTDC (or 10 degrees advanced)....

Quote:
And i need to set the timing on idle rpm's and the vacuum hose from the dist disconnected? After i set the timing, i put the vacuum hose to the correct spot and it's ok?
Yes, but rpm needs to be lowered to the rpm noted on your fender sticker, not just any idle rpm....



:wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Careful...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:03 am 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:59 am
Posts: 65
Location: Finland
Car Model:
Okay i have set my idle rpm's to 900 rpm on netural/park
And it drops to somewhere between 600-750 while on reverse or drive.


Timing is set to 10 BTDC.

Runs like a completely different car. Got more power and no more stuttering..

Still running a tad too lean though.. I need to adjust my metering rods again..


Fairly simple and easy to check and adjust the timing on these things.


Red vacuum hose is connected to the number 6 piston intake port and the other ports behind the carb are now correctly plugged up.

The vent bowl now has no plug on it but i put a piece of cloth with a ziptie to keep dust and dirt from being sucked in the engine.

The port between mixture screws is still plugged.


Works heaps better now.

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 Post subject: Re: Careful...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:15 am 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
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Location: North America
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Quote:
Okay i have set my idle rpm's to 900 rpm on netural/park
Too high.
Quote:
And it drops to somewhere between 600-750 while on reverse or drive.
Too much drop.
Quote:
Timing is set to 10 BTDC.
Not really a reliable setting because it was set at too high an idle RPM.
Quote:
Runs like a completely different car. Got more power and no more stuttering.
Good! It'll run even better once the settings are closer to correct than to random.
Quote:
The vent bowl now has no plug on it but i put a piece of cloth with a ziptie to keep dust and dirt from being sucked in the engine.
Not needed or helpful; there is no suction or path into the engine via the bowl vent.

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 Post subject: Re: Careful...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:47 pm 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:59 am
Posts: 65
Location: Finland
Car Model:
Quote:
Quote:
Timing is set to 10 BTDC.
Not really a reliable setting because it was set at too high an idle RPM.
Quote:
The vent bowl now has no plug on it but i put a piece of cloth with a ziptie to keep dust and dirt from being sucked in the engine.
Not needed or helpful; there is no suction or path into the engine via the bowl vent.
Timing was set with lower rpm's. I changed it to 900rpm AFTER the timing was set.



There is actually a path going to the engine via the bowl vent.
There are two holes on the plate on top of the thing and the holes go under the circular air filter housing gasket and into the engine bypassing the air filter.

It closes up when you rev your engine but when you're ilding, the vent is at open position and it sucks in air. (You can put your finger on the hole and feel a faint suction.)


The same holes are identical on my stock carter bbd.

Only difference is that my carters plate has one screw and the chinese trinket has 3 screws holding the plate.


If i remember correclty, the carter has a sticker that says:
"Tested by Jody C"




EDIT:
Found this image in google:
Image

You see the holes are marked with a red circle and the gasket is marked with a green circle.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:07 am 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:49 pm
Posts: 44
Location: Mount Pleasant sc
Car Model:
Quick question off topic, would I need to add lead to a 72 valiant engine or does it have hardened valves and seats

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:42 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 13092
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model: 76 D100
Quote:
Quick question off topic, would I need to add lead to a 72 valiant engine or does it have hardened valves and seats
No.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:10 am 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:49 pm
Posts: 44
Location: Mount Pleasant sc
Car Model:
No it doesn't need lead or no it doesn't have hardened seats

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:00 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24486
Location: North America
Car Model:
Quote:
Quick question off topic, would I need to add lead to a 72 valiant engine or does it have hardened valves and seats
No, do not add any lead or lead substitutes to a Slant-6 engine. Detailed discussion here.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:38 pm 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''
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Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:59 am
Posts: 20
Location: Durango, Mexico
Car Model:
I'm still stumbling on timing.
71' 225 SL6 with HEI conversion.
http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic ... highlight=

Set it at what I think is 9-10 BTDC, works great. When car gets really warm (after about 45 mins in city traffic) I start to get rattling/pinging when changing to 2nd (+4o Km/h) or to 3rd gear (+/- 60 Km/h). Does this mean I need to pull back a little on timing (maybe to 8 BTDC?)...

BUT reading further here I see that faulty cooling system could be the culprit. The engine gets hot and the low level pinging starts?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:47 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:58 pm
Posts: 569
Location: New Jersey USA
Car Model:
Quote:
The engine gets hot and the low level pinging starts?
You could have detonation or pre-ignition, both can give you that rattling sound. (They are similar, but not exactly the same).

Common causes are: gas octane that is too low, not enough fuel (carb mixture is too lean), exhaust manifold heat riser valve is stuck in the ON position, thermostatic air cleaner (warm air system) stuck in the "heated air" mode, restricted exhaust system, carbon build up or other hot spots in the combustion chambers, incorrect spark plugs (wrong heat range), static/ dynamic compression is too high, too much ignition timing (or the mechanical - vacuum advance curves are wrong), cooling system temps are too high.

Lots of things to look at, but given your description of a '71 225 with 9-10 BTDC, I would check the distributor advance first. Stock (for a US-spec 225) was 0-2.5 BTDC, & if you just change the initial to 9-10 then the TOTAL advance is too much. Usually if you want to run more initial timing, you have to take apart the dist & modify/ limit/ recurve the mechanical advance. (it involves some welding & trying out different advance springs).

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