Notch the fan for the bolt............
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| 62 Valiant Fan Clearance https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59005 |
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| Author: | valiant_200 [ Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | 62 Valiant Fan Clearance |
I have been rebuilding a `62 Valiant for some time now. At the moment I am trying to fit a `65 225 under the hood, but the clearances are tight! There is only 1/2" between the stock fan and radiator with the fan bolted straight to the pump with no spacer. I am used to the `63 and up Valiants where there is about 2 inches of clearance there and at first I thought something was wrong. But I measured the clearance on an unmolested `61 for reference and the clearance is tight there as well. The closeness wouldn't be a problem, but the engine I have has two pulleys on the crank. The fan would barely clear them, but there is one more complication. In the center of the pulleys there is a large bolt screwed into the bore in the crankshaft, and the fan strikes it. So my question is: Do I need to keep the bolt? I have seen plenty of engines without one, so I suspect it might simply be getting in the way. |
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| Author: | crickhollow [ Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:54 am ] |
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I am also restoring a 62 Valiant (Signet 2 door coupe). There is very little distance between the fan blade and radiator (don't hit your brakes too hard) as you observed on the earlier Valiant. I think it best that you have a single pulley and/or remove the bolt. |
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| Author: | emsvitil [ Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:11 am ] |
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Notch the fan for the bolt............
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| Author: | Nicademas [ Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:11 am ] |
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Make sure your fan dosent flex when you rev the motor as well. I have the stock five finger fan on my truck. It is two inches away from the radiator and works well. But at high rpms the blades flatten out and move almost 1/2 an inch forward. |
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| Author: | NEVjr [ Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:09 pm ] |
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remember, the earliest valiants and the slant were made for each other, literally. my 62 is also close, i changed the waterpump and looking back, i wish i had just pulled the rad to do it. |
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| Author: | 62 alum [ Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:18 pm ] |
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My 62 also has the fan close to the radiator and close to where the crank bolt should be. Mine has never had this bolt and has worked fine for the last 10 years with the single pulley and stock four blade fan. I wonder how these cars mounted a/c or p/s Thanks for the info.about notching the fan, I have a notched fan in my collection of parts and never knew the reason for it.[/quote] |
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| Author: | azray [ Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:53 pm ] |
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That bolt was probably installed so the engine could be cranked by hand before You bought it. it should not be out past the edge of the pulleys , It may be too long and , or have built up dirt under it. I would most likely just remove it. At least make sure it is properly seated , It should also have a big washer under it I would also consider notching a fan blade as a last ditch effort , If You did not get each blade balanced properly You could have a wobbly noisy fan that would wear out Your water pump very quickly, Saturday morning update ; Decided to go out and actually look at my engines. I just looked at My engines . out of 7 , only 1 has a stock bolt in My 64 Valiant . It does sit Proud of the harmonic balancer by 3/4 inch, the fan has a 1 inch spacer on top of a shallow pulley, My 63 val wagon with power steering has a pulley mounted on front of balancer , that would cover the bolt if it had one, it has fan spacer inside a deep pulley |
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| Author: | valiant_200 [ Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks everyone for all of the great replies. I have several other engines to refer to of varying ages. Some have a bolt, some do not. I have a late engine (85) from a truck with two pulleys and it has an enormous bolt. I have a 76 engine with two pulleys and no bolt. The stock 170 that came from the 62 has one pulley and no bolt. My 63 has one pulley, no bolt. In all cases of engines I have with two pulleys, the additional pulley is on the inside of the harmonic balance wheel, between the balance wheel and the timing chain cover. If the majority thinks removing the bolt is safe, I will do that. It is worth noting that I have been driving the car with the 76 engine in it since 1988 and have never experienced any trouble with it. In these early Valiants, every fraction of an inch counts! |
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| Author: | Pierre [ Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:12 pm ] |
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The damper is a press fit to the crank. The other pulleys bolt on to the damper with 5/16 or was it 3/8 bolts. If you only have the main damper and rear pulley you won't see these small bolts as the head is facing the timing cover. The big bolt in the center - all cranks are threaded for it, but only the later engines came with them from the factory. The back of the head should be flush to a washer, and the washer to the balancer. If not, then as said either the bolt is too long and has bottomed out, or theres crud in the threads, or someone's buggered up the threads and it won't go in all the way etc. It's often used to press on the damper, so you should be able to get it tight - there shouldn't be any exposed shoulder/thread. Removing it is a pain if it's stuck, especially with engine in car. Yank the starter (or the torque converter inspection cover) and use a large flat head or other favorite implement through the converter teeth. I've also put a long wrench on the bolt and the other side against the ground then bumped the starter. Just be careful which way you need to put the wrench. Of course if the fan's already in the way of the bolt head this will require yanking the fan back off to do this. |
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| Author: | valiant_200 [ Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:40 pm ] |
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The bolt, which has a fairly shallow head, does indeed have a flat washer. Everything is tight as a drum. I will have to take everything out again to remove it, which isn't that big of a pain really. This is all pretty much a test fit, so there are no hoses or transmission lines to contend with. The reason the fan is so close is not so much because the bolt sticks out, but because there is a bolt to begin with. There was no bolt in the stock engine and everything was apparently designed to fit together with every fraction of an inch accounted for. For anyone who thinks all old cars have plenty of room under the hood, meet the first edition Valiant! This should really get interesting when I try to jam an A/C in there. |
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| Author: | Rick Covalt [ Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:30 am ] |
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Check with Ron Hamby. They have AC in their car. |
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| Author: | valiant_200 [ Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:28 am ] |
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I appreciate all of your thoughts so far. After checking and double checking, I believe that the harmonic balance wheel on this engine has been jury rigged by some previous owner. The double pulley setup I have on the `76 engine has three bolts coming from inside the HBW, with the tips protruding about a 1/4 inch forward of the wheel. The engine that is now in the `62 also has three bolts in the same place, but there are lock washers and nuts on them, and they stick out at least 1/8" farther than stock. Then the large bolt, which has a fairly shallow head and a thick washer, sticks out about another 1/4 inch beyond that. The original engine had NONE of this. The HBW is flat with no bolts of any sort. If all of that junk was not in the way, I would have about 1/2" clearance, just like the stock distance between the fan and radiator. Since the fan was only striking the bolt by a hair, I put washers behind each of the 4 bolts in the fan pulley, moving that forward the thickness of the washers. I then slightly bent the blades forward toward the fan. This bought about 1/8" clearance on the bolt. If I were to remove the bolt altogether, I would have about 1/4" inch clearance. So, do I take my chances with 1/8" clearance, or pull the bolt and have 1/4" clearance? I guess we also should consider what problem did the previous owners have that required all of this extra hardware? The car this engine came out of had an aftermarket York R-12 A/C unit. Was this some modification for that? |
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| Author: | Charrlie_S [ Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:16 am ] |
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Quote: I guess we also should consider what problem did the previous owners have that required all of this extra hardware? The car this engine came out of had an aftermarket York R-12 A/C unit. Was this some modification for that? PS: I am going to a contract manufacturing trade show in March. If I can find a suppiler, I might start having them made, again. But it would be several months out, so don't hold your breath. |
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