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| copper head gaskets https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59648 |
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| Author: | '67 Dart 270 [ Sun May 15, 2016 3:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | copper head gaskets |
For you all who use copper head gaskets, do you use sealant or o-rings and grooves? I'm sure you boost guys probably use these. Generally care free, or leaky issues? Just curious as this might be an option to lower my compression. b |
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| Author: | CNC-Dude [ Sun May 15, 2016 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yes, O-rings are required for copper head gaskets and a high quality sealer usually provided by the gasket manufacturer is needed. |
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| Author: | '67 Dart 270 [ Sun May 15, 2016 5:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | thanks |
Do you use a tool to make grooves or does the manufacturer do that typically? What kind of o-rings are used? Are they wire or something else? Thank you, brian |
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| Author: | CNC-Dude [ Sun May 15, 2016 6:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
You have to have the block decked flat first and the grooves are then done by the machine shop as well. Isky makes a tool you can rent but they provide crappy copper o-rings which should not be used. The steel o-ring wire that machine shops provide is vastly superior. |
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| Author: | '67 Dart 270 [ Sun May 15, 2016 7:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | thanks |
I think maybe this more than I want to chew, but thank you for the details. b |
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| Author: | ProCycle [ Sun May 15, 2016 9:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Steel o-ring wire for copper head gaskets. Copper o-ring wire for composite gaskets. |
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| Author: | Rick Covalt [ Thu May 19, 2016 4:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Brian, you have a PM. |
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| Author: | '67 Dart 270 [ Fri May 20, 2016 12:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | o-ring wires |
Why do copper gaskets require o-rings, don't they provide some crush and seal between cast iron head and block? What about sealants like copper spray? What kind of "composite" gaskets need copper o-rings? If copper o-rings seal, then why not simply the copper gasket without o-rings? Isn't copper malleable enough (when heat treated) to seal freshly milled planar mating surfaces with all that force evenly applied with head bolts (assuming all surfaces are planar including the copper gasket)? I'm just curious, I'm not familiar with this technology. I use the Felpro gasket "as is" and it sealed fine. I do understand that boost and other applications might need something stronger, I just don't understand the need for o-rings. thanks to anyone who schools me on this. brian |
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| Author: | Badvert65 [ Fri May 20, 2016 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I once read that cylinders with 4 head bolts around them will generally require O ring when subjected to high compression, high boost, or large levels of nitrous. This would be like the slant six, and ford/chevy small blocks. If they have 5 or more head bolts around the cylinder, they can stand higher pressures without o rings. This would be like the Hemi, and Big block Mopar engines. I think it all boils down to how much 'squeeze' you are putting on things. |
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| Author: | CNC-Dude [ Fri May 20, 2016 1:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Copper doesn't have any natural sealing qualities within itself to provide sealing without the aid of sealers. Since copper doesn't stick to the surfaces it is contacts, o-rings help keep it from squirming around on the blocks deck surface and also pinches into the softer copper to provide a deeper penetration into the gasket to make it harder for compressed gases to sneak thru the seal that is produced by it. Copper head gasket technology has been around for over 50 years now, and the silicone type sealers have proven to be the best sealing method compared to the spray on type. |
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| Author: | '67 Dart 270 [ Fri May 20, 2016 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | CNC-dude |
So, for non boost applications, can one use a copper gasket and sealant or must one use o-rings? brian |
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| Author: | CNC-Dude [ Fri May 20, 2016 5:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Copper head gaskets can not be used without o-ringing regardless of N/A or boost. It is an absolute! |
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| Author: | '67 Dart 270 [ Fri May 20, 2016 5:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Thanks CNC-dude.. |
..good to know... I picked up a copper gasket not knowing any better, let me know if anyone wants to buy it (cheap); I'll take a loss for ignorance. It is 0.042" thick and 3.45" diameter. Just PM me. Brian |
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| Author: | ProCycle [ Fri May 20, 2016 5:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
It's a bit of a reach to say orings are an absolute must. Copper head gaskets have been used many types of engines for many decades without orings. But... these days a copper gasket is not usually considered appropriate for a daily driver. They do tend to weep even when well sealed. For ultra high compression, forced induction, etc a copper gasket needs orings and sealer and will be more robust than a composite gasket - but it will still probably weep fluids a bit. |
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| Author: | '67 Dart 270 [ Fri May 20, 2016 6:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Good context, Procycle... |
...and also confirms that I don't want to play with copper gaskets... brian |
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