Slant Six Forum
https://slantsix.org/forum/

Upper and lower control arms interchange years
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59826		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Fin65Valiant [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Upper and lower control arms interchange years
The front part of my 65 valiant is beginning to show its 50 years of salty Finnish winters. There is need for major strengthening of the frame from the rear transmission support forward. At the same time I'm hoping to service of the front suspension (joints, bushings). All of this needs to be done, but I'm not quite ready for it yet.

It seems everything cannot wait, however, so I guess I get to practice a little first. The left side upper control arm now has a bad-looking tear in it caused by corrosion and must be replaced immediately. It is reasonable to expect that the right side needs to be replaced soon too. The lower control arms don't look that great either (caked with dirt and rust), but I guess they are sturdier, so maybe I could keep them. On the other hand, having a pair of extra LCAs (cleaned up and painted) would make things easier, the day when the big job is at hand.

Finally, my questions:
1) which years' lower control arms are identical (or can be used)

2) which years' upper control arms can I use (or can be used)

The car is a 65 valiant, stock, 9 inch drums.

Thanks,
Maurice
Author:  65 dartman [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
If no sway bar 63 through 76 lower arms are all the same. If you have a sway bar, then 65-72 with the sway bar tab will be the same.

On uppers 63 through 72 for sure whether drum or disc brakes. Some 73 - 76 also used the same upper with the small ball joint - most were large ball joint though.
Author:  Danarchy [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Maurice - If you are interested, I have a pair of 1964 Upper Control Arms I removed from my Dart GT when I upgraded the suspension.
I will give to you. All you would have to pay is shipping from (75110 Texas)
The Control Arms are in Very Good condition, but will need to be rebuilt (Ball Joints & Bushings)
I went to QA1 Tubular UCA's and Boxed the LCA's.
Send me a PM if interested. -Dan
Author:  Fin65Valiant [ Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:18 am ]
Post subject: 
Thank you 65Dartman for the information and thank you for your kind offer Don (I will PM you a little later).

No sway bars, just a humble little Valiant imported at the time with as few gadgets as possible to keep the import tax as low as possible (although here this little car was actually considered a big family car).

Just to make sure 65Dartman, do you know that the 62 upper control arm is different or doesn't your information you have just go that far back? My parts books give the same part number for 62 and 65. I have my 62 valiant project and I just came to think that maybe it would be possible to take the upper control arm and the steering knuckle together and swap them as a unit. The 62 is in no way a parts car, but I think I could "borrow" these parts this one time... I'd prefer to put in all the "new" parts only later, when I'm ready for the big job. It would also speed up things now considerably.

Not sure how much sense this makes. I've never done any work on the front suspension/steering before. So please bear with me and thank you for all the help.

Maurice
Author:  65 dartman [ Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:40 am ]
Post subject: 
Maurice - I can't answer your question concerning interchangeability with the 62 parts; perhaps SlantSixDan might see this thread and chime in.

hopefully other European members who see this thread might have rebuild able parts that would work AND be a lot less expensive than shipping heavy parts from the US. I have a friend in Sweden who has numerous 65 Darts; I will contact him and find out if he can assist you.
Don
Author:  Dart270 [ Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:59 am ]
Post subject: 
According to my knowledge, 62-72 upper control arms are the same.

I recommend taking this opportunity to upgrade your front suspension to 73-76 upper control arms, spindles, and brakes and you can use any lower control arms 62-76. You will get disc brakes, bigger bearings, stronger ball joints... Fortunately, all of these 73-76 parts are available new in stock or tubular/welded form. I believe Firmfeel.com can supply everything and they are a reputable source.

What is your budget for near term repairs and upgrades?

Best wishes,

Lou
Author:  Fin65Valiant [ Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:48 am ]
Post subject: 
Thank you again for all the help. Sorry for my slow answers. I am myself half invalid, need to keep the household (myself and my 84-year-old mother) somehow running, so everything I do takes time (and this stupid speech recognition program keeps insulting my oh so perfect English pronunciation)

I have received a few offers for control arms here in Finland too, but nothing great yet. Still looking. I also need to order a new ball joint and bushings from Rock auto.

MOOG has been recommended here. I suppose the cheapest brands are a waste of money, but shouldn't ACDELCO be fine also? There is also another brand called MEVOTECH that has both cheaper and more expensive variants. Is this one okay, or is it one of the "stay away"-brands?

Also, are NOS parts okay when it comes to ball joints. Do they go bad, sitting on the shelf for decades or is it okay to buy if I can find for a decent price? I haven't seen at least SPICER DANA and TRW joints as NOS parts. Any opinions?

Maurice
Author:  Dart270 [ Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Most "off the shelf" brands are not good these days. They wear out quickly. If you can find NOS or older parts on the shelf (spicer, dana, etc...), those will likely be much better and do not wear out sitting on the shelf.

I have heard "Proforged" joints are better than others (new parts), and I have some that look nicer than MOOG, but I have not run them yet.

Lou
Author:  Fin65Valiant [ Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
According to my knowledge, 62-72 upper control arms are the same.

I recommend taking this opportunity to upgrade your front suspension to 73-76 upper control arms, spindles, and brakes and you can use any lower control arms 62-76. You will get disc brakes, bigger bearings, stronger ball joints... Fortunately, all of these 73-76 parts are available new in stock or tubular/welded form. I believe Firmfeel.com can supply everything and they are a reputable source.

What is your budget for near term repairs and upgrades?

Best wishes,

Lou
Thanks for the recommendation Lou. I know this is what many of you have done and I know there are valid arguments for it. But this is an old lady. No speeding, no fast cornering, no racing. Nice driving.

For me the front suspension and the steering have never caused any problems. I've always been very happy with how she feels. It's probably partly because I'm simply just so used to it, having had the car for 28 years. But the truth is, whenever I drive a modern car. It feels like I cant feel the road, if you know what I mean.

The reason for the extensive work I want to do that front end is rust. And, while I like the way she feels now, I realise that pretty much all the bushings must be more or less at the end of their life. Some of the joints are probably still okay, but it makes sense to change most/all of them too while at it. This extensive work will have to wait a little more, but I am gathering information and parts already. Right now, though, I need to get the UCA fixed.

Objectively speaking, disc brakes are better than drums. I know that. The problem is, that the very limited experience I personally have of them hast made me dislike them and its not easy to embrace something you actively dislike. Unfortunately I also can drive very little nowadays. Most weeks. I drive less than 5 miles at speeds under 25 miles an hour. It's a far cry from the traffic you have over there. The longest distance I have driven in one day during the last eight years is about 70 miles.

Another important point is that if I ever need to register her as a veteran car, very little changes are allowed for her to be accepted. So far this hasn't been necessary, but as insurance and pollution taxes increase in the future, who knows...

So, advice much appreciated even though not followed...

Maurice
Author:  Dart270 [ Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:32 am ]
Post subject: 
OK, if those are your driving habits and traffic situation, then the drums and stock suspension should work fine.

Lou
Author:  Fin65Valiant [ Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Update: I received a nice pair of upper control arms today (Ebay). They feel very solid, so hopefully they are okay in other ways too.

A few days earlier, I received the upper ball joint that I bought on eBay. It's an old McQuay-Norris (SKF logo too), so hopefully it is of "good old quality. At least the rubber still feels like new. There is a problem, however. I also bought the socket (1-59/64, that's correct, right?) The joint is very loose in the socket. I measured the socket and it is correct but the joint is a good 4 mm narrower (that's about 5/32"). Is it normal that the fit is so loose, or have I received the wrong ball joint in the correct box (according to the box it came in it is correct). Any such experiences? Any ideas?

Maurice

Pictures (hope this works)

<a href="http://aijaa.com/j9JFWK" target="_blank"><img src="http://i7.aijaa.com/t/00117/14212035.t.jpg"></a>

<a href="http://aijaa.com/MU7nNb" target="_blank"><img src="http://i9.aijaa.com/t/00305/14212036.t.jpg"></a>

<a href="http://aijaa.com/b2rj4q" target="_blank"><img src="http://i10.aijaa.com/t/00455/14212037.t.jpg"></a>
Author:  Dart270 [ Sat Jul 16, 2016 3:12 am ]
Post subject: 
There are two different UBJ sockets for Mopar A-bodies. The large one, which you apparently received, is for the 73-up UBJs. The small one fits the 72-down UBJs, which is what you need. These are getting more scarce, but should be available. I have previously removed and installed UBJs with a very large adjustable wrench (pipe wrench or other) or a large channel locks (adj slot joint pliers), but that is more difficult than using the socket. Do this with arm bolted to the car, or find a large and beefy vise to hold/clamp the arm.

Lou
Author:  Fin65Valiant [ Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:21 am ]
Post subject: 
Dammit! I thought it was the correct one. And that it was a good deal.

I know to look for the smaller one of two. Now I see there are three different sizes instead of two and this seems to be the middle one, not the small one.

Oh well, cant help it. Glad to find out this early at least. Thanks again Lou for your help.

Maurice
Author:  Dart270 [ Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Happy to be of help. Best of luck with your continuing project.

Lou
Author:  75valiant [ Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
There are two different UBJ sockets for Mopar A-bodies. The large one, which you apparently received, is for the 73-up UBJs. The small one fits the 72-down UBJs, which is what you need. These are getting more scarce, but should be available. I have previously removed and installed UBJs with a very large adjustable wrench (pipe wrench or other) or a large channel locks (adj slot joint pliers), but that is more difficult than using the socket. Do this with arm bolted to the car, or find a large and beefy vise to hold/clamp the arm.

Lou
i did the above procedure, using moog parts, and the instructions said to torque to 125 ft/lbs. it also said to discard the control arm if it would not hold to 125. well, i got to 120 fine, and when i tried that last push, it spun. i was in a hurry to take a road trip (already made reservations), so i made an emergency purchase, which was successful, except for all the money i wasted on new bushings and ball joints.

if this happens to you, here is a little trick you case use to make your control arm useable. put a coil of bare copper wire where the threads are. it doesn't have to be very heavy wire. when you thread the ball joint into the stripped threads, it will hold. this would have saved me hundreds of dollars. live and learn.
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC-07:00
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
https://www.phpbb.com/