I have a 63 dart original slant six three freeze plug motor that's got a really weird timing issue . When I got the car it had sat for two years so I replaced everything electrical under the hood and the car had electronic ignition already. After I fired it up about two months ago I bent a push rod so I pulled the head to make sure a valve didn't say hi to the piston ( it didn't) and with the head off I got to true top dead center pulled the timing cover and replaced the timing chain. I got it all back together in about an afternoon when I went to crank and I got nothing. I move the dist in both directions and nothing I finally got it to run by pulling.the dist and moving it two teeth clockwise. It starts great and idles great but has terrible power and starts to knock at about 2500 rpm. Any ideas I was thinking a flat cam.
Thanks

I'm no guru on this, but I just finished the timing chain job on a 76 slant. Your issue sounds dramatically like the timing marks on the cam and crank sprockets were not properly aligned toward each other when you assembled them. Also, no disrespect, but the woodruff key was still in the crankshaft when you put that sprocket on? One thing that might have secretly "gotchya" is the crankshaft damper/pulley assembly. Though it looks like one solid forging, on the 1976 engine it is actually two pieces, and inner hub and outer ring/pulley with a rubber bonded seal holding the two together. If you beat the damper back onto the engine with a BFH, you may have sheared the rubber bond, thereby allowing the outer ring/pulley --with the timing mark on it-- to slip out of position on the inner hub. That would render your timing mark drastically out of place.

_________________
"Louise", a 1976 Dart Custom project, (now sadly reverted to being just an "organ donor" to our other project Darts.)

Well I pulled the head an verified TDC before I replaced the chain aligned the marks on the sprockets facing each other and used a puller and installer when removing and installing the damper .The only time I use a BFH is when I'm doing suspension work.

It is time to check the valve timing.. just to be sure that the new chain an gears went on in the correct position.
( the dots stamped on the gears can be off )

Pull the valve cover.

For this test, re-adjust the valve lash on the #1 exhaust valve so it is the same as the intake valve lash. (.010 & .010)

Find TDC exhaust stroke, (TDCEx) this is when cylinder #1 is in valve overlap mode, where the intake & exhaust valves are both open, at the same time. (no lash at either valve @ TDCEx)

Slowly rotate the engine clockwise while you "feel" for the exhaust valve lash to come back. (the exhaust valve will finish closing and the intake will be opening)
(Tip: pulling the spark plugs will make engine turning easier)
I try to twist the exhaust valve push rod, while turning the engine.
You will be able to twist it as soon as the valve hits the seat. (lifter gets off the cam lobe)
This should happen right after TDCEx.

Mark this Position on the Damper with a felt pen, as soon as this happens.

Do the same for the intake valve & Mark That Position.
Tip #2: I rotate the engine backwards, by about 90 degrees, then come back clockwise, to TDCEx, watching carefully for the intake valve lash to "go away".
(Intake valve should start to open just before TDCEx)

The two new marks you just made should be evenly spaced, on either side of your true TDC mark. This is called "split overlap" and it is a simple way to see if your timing gears are installed in the correct position.

If the overlap event is way off, you are likely a tooth off with the new timing gears & chain.

Be sure to re-adjust the lash on the valves, after completing this test.
DD

Ok so I just did that the exhaust mark is about an inch and a half away and the intake is about 2 1/4 inches away from true TDC mark. So how do I fix it.

You have to change the relationship between the crank and cam sprockets.

_________________
Joshua

But with the dots not meeting each other how do I know where to put the cam sprocket. I do have the original gears out of the car could I use those for reference.

Timing sets have gotten pretty bad in recent years. You can read several cases in this community where the cam sprocket was marked off by one tooth. It appears we can add you to that camp. The consensus is to use a degree wheel to accurately set the cam position if you have the tools to do so. Otherwise you're splitting the overlap as Doc described.

I recently tore down an engine that was rebuilt about 10k miles ago and the timing chain was rather loose. My solution for that is a RollMaster timing set, but at $120 some find it hard to justify the expense. I feel the $100 price difference is worthwhile as I value my time and frustration more heavily than in years past.

_________________
Joshua

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ep ... iming.html

Model E25 or TP-102, This is the timing cone we use for aircraft crankshafts. Something like it could probably be fashioned for the crank pulley on the Slant-6. The back "cone" gets rubber-banded or taped to the crankshaft "flywheel", ie., the propeller hub. The face protractor can be turned separately under a slight friction to the backing cone, allowing manual adjustment. The needle swings freely, and is weighted so gravity keeps it pointing straight up. Visit your local aircraft mechanic to see the tool once, and one visual will explain it all. Could be easily fabricated from two 180* office store protractors and a cottage cheese tub. The screw-in plug should be aluminum and would be harder to make, as it needs to be threaded into the spark plug hole. (core-out a spark plug and jam in a extender rod??).
It's kind of difficult to explain without a video, which I don't do. The premise: the crankshaft rotates 360*. You need to find TDC or 0*. Think of 360* as a pizza pie. (1) Screw that long plug into the #1 spark plug hole and (2) (by hand) rotate the crankshaft to bring the piston up on compression until it hits that plug you got sticking down the spark plug hole. (3) Creatively: firmly attach the protractor/cone tool to the crankshaft pulley/damper, and set the protractor face by rotating the face plate to read 0* zero at the needle point. (4) Now, by hand, turn the crankshaft all the way around the other way (about 300*) until the piston goes down and back up again to hit that long plug in the spark plug hole again. (5) The reading at the needle on the protractor will be something like 60*, plus/minus 20*. Whatever it reads- you have found the size of the piece of the pizza pie that you can't get to because of the plug. Split that number, say, 74*, in half 37*, and that is exactly halfway through that piece of pizza. (6) If you manually move that protractor face to the 37* mark on the needle point, you can rotate the crankshaft around hitting the plug both directions, and it will read 37* (either side of TDC 0*) both ways. (7) Now by removing the plug from the spark plug hole, you can rotate the crankshaft on compression stroke around and your protractor tool needle will point to 0* TDC at the exact point. You have just calibrated the protractor tool exactly to your crankshaft. Time your engine off this protractor. If I lost you, sorry. I don't have anything easier. But it works really well on airplanes...

_________________
"Louise", a 1976 Dart Custom project, (now sadly reverted to being just an "organ donor" to our other project Darts.)

You have just described how to use a 'Degree Wheel'

_________________
-MattMan
LEANED & MEAN

Oh, that must be what it's called in automotive talk. In airplanes we call it a timing cone. I'll google the $ and sources for cars. Thanks. Geez, I always learn sumpthin new on this forum!

_________________
"Louise", a 1976 Dart Custom project, (now sadly reverted to being just an "organ donor" to our other project Darts.)

I fixed it everything runs great it seems the mark was slightly off thanks everyone.I'm sure I'll be back with more questions when something else goes wrong.