Hey guys! New here, had my valiant for almost 6 months now, absolutely love it! 1964 v200 with a 170 and a push button 904. Actually not bad power for 100 hp, was expecting worse acceleration. My question is this(and its gonna be everyone's personal opinion). For performance which is better? 170 or 225? Most performance talk is for the 225, but from what I understand Chrysler originally made the hyperpack for the 170. The 170 revs better too...
My stock engine goes to 6000 rpm and just loves it! My goal for this car is a fun street machine. Somewhere in the 200 hp neighborhood , maybe 250.
Anyway, enough outta me.
Thanks! Jordan

Welcome to the site.
AS you said, "personal opinion". It depends exactly what you are after, and your budget. There is nothing wrong with a 170, except it lacks 50 cubes, and cubes is HP, and torque. I (and others) have had good luck with the 170. If our 170 runs good, and is sound (ps: I don't believe a stock 170 will turn 6,000 rpm) and you don't plan on doing internal engine worg, stay with your engine. But I don't think 200 hp is feasable.
PS: There is no header that will fit a 170 engine in your car, with out modifying.

If you budget allows, get a spare 225 engine, and build that, then swap it in.

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225

"personal opinion".
-Upgrade your brakes First.
-Rebuild/Upgrade your suspension.
-Upgrade lighting and electrical.
-"get a spare 225 engine, and build that, then swap it in."
In that exact order.

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1964 Dart GT

Yup, no replacement for displacement! I've got a very powerful long stroke engine in my truck, but for this vehicle I want decent rpm. What does a modded 225 rev to?
I took care of brakes and suspension already, disk and power brake conversion from a scamp and I transplanted a ford 8.8 31 spline rear axle with bigger brakes already too. Monster drive shaft with 1330 u joints.
Axle has LSD too. (btw, I know its not a Chrysler product, but once you cut the mounts and move them out the axle fits like a glove. Bolt in id say!)
Sounds like I'm gonna run this motor and build the 225.
What's ur opinion on the Clifford performance headers and intake?

In general, I'm not a big Clifford fan, anymore. However their "shory" headers are the only ones that fit your year "A" body, and they will not fit the 170 without modifing them. The also will not fit a 225 with power steering. There intake is good for a race engine, but the Offie is a better street manifold. The Clifford manifold will not work with a stock exhaust manifold, while the Offie will. Aussie Speed says their long tube headers will fit both the 170 and 225 in the early "A" body, but I cannot verify that.

It sounds like your not a cheapskate, like me, and can speend a few dollars on the car. Consider a turbo, on either a 170 or 225. If you can do your own fab work, it can be done on a reasonable budget.

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225

charrlie, looks like from your sig you like your 170s! a whole pile of them!
I have considered the turbo route(and being an early engine makes it tempting because of the forged crank and stronger rods). No matter which way i add it up, turbo is gonna be expensive and tricky to tune. Fabrication doesn't scare me in the least, i designed a set of compound turbos for my diesel. It was alot of fun to do, but alot of work.
I kinda want to build a simple engine and make some decent power. I can get my hands on several slant 6 motors, my father in law has an auto wrecker and I've got my eye on a 67 225(again forged parts).
The Clifford guys are claiming to add 70% more tq and hp with their headers, intake and carb kit. Which seems a bit optimistic considering that's taking the 225 from 140 hp to 240(at the crank). And that's not even adding a bigger cam or raising the compression. can anybody confirm or deny their claims?

Clifford's power claims aren't worth the sheet of paper they might be printed on. Even on a very highly modified engine the Clifford intake, with EFI no less, is only worth 20hp over an Offy intake with a carburetor. It is a good intake manifold, but might not be the best for your purposes.

If I were building a street engine I wouldn't use the Clifford intake on a 170 unless it was borderline un-streetable. I would use the Offy on most 225s as well. If you're keeping the stock exhaust manifold it's Offy all the way. Or even a Super Six.

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/mop ... ix-engine/

Slants are intake breathing limited primarily and that includes the intake valve and seat.

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Joshua

You'll hear the name "Clifford" come up, but be very careful before you decide to spend any money with Clifford. They have a long and ugly reputation for being a bunch of clowns; see for example here, here, here, here, and here. Much of what they sell is inaccurately described, and a lot of it is not even slightly cost-effective. The good news is that you don't need to go to Clifford to get hot rod parts for slant-6s; there are lots of other, better options. See for example Dutra Duals and header options discussed in this thread and this one, Erson custom cams, HEI ignition upgrade, Mike Jeffreys windage trays, Hurricane intakes, other exotic intakes. Hi-perf engine buildup here, high-perf parts and build info here.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

With an automatic you'll be better off with a 225

You'll need a manual tranny (4,5,6 speed) to use the revs of a 170.

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

I have revved my mills up to 6200 for a limited time (right before launch)...and have have limited sustained rpm at 6000....daily driving, you won't see above 3000 depending on gearing and drivetrain options....

A properly built hi-compression 225 with a clifford hyperpak will make about 196 at the crank... (and more if you don't want a street driven car....)...
It's not the most street friendly, and it doesn't breath as well as Doug's limited run of manifolds...

As stated there are better options for a fun daily driver....

Jordan - What did the Axle come out of?

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1964 Dart GT

I have turned my 232 up to 7000. I used to shift at 6750 N/A, and 6500 on spray.

Remember, the NASCAR Hyperpak motors only redlined around 5800. RPM is totally useless if you can't get it up there quickly.

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Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

thanks for all the good advice and info guys!
The claims from Clifford seemed a bit off. Ive built a few motors and it seemed a bit high. I'm not rushing out to buy anything at this point, but i want to research so i know what to buy!

I'm not too fussy which engine i go with, but I'm not compromising when it comes to the transmission. I've got a push button auto and i really want to keep it. It's one of the coolest parts of the car and normally i'm a die-hard standard tranny guy but this is the first auto car i actually want. This also complicates things for years of engines from what i'm reading. after 67 the torque converter changes so if i use a 225 i need the older one.

So as far as engine mods, i'm planning on porting the head a bit, bigger valves, raise the compression a bunch, windage tray and make sure it can handle reving, and quite high. Gonna run headers for sure, but it sounds like the intake is kind of the make or brake street car or race car. So that's an important decision. Never driven a 225 but an inch longer stroke makes me feel like it isn't gonna want to rev unless lots of money is spent. I really don't want to build a torque monster, as i already said, i got a twin turbo diesel that revs to 3500 rpm max and it sounds like it's gonna come apart. love it death, but this is gonna be different. I want revs.
I can manually shift the transmission and let it wind up to where i want to shift, power loss through the torque converter but no rpm loss

opps buggered the quote
from a early 90's ford explorer(drum brake version). quite strong, used them in a few of my vehicles, and they are cheap.

Isn't there an article here located somewhere here on a stroker 170 using a 198 crank?? Wondering if that might work for your build? Just found it n the article section....100" over bore and a 198 crank gives 210 cubes,from the article a lot of clearancing was needed,but it's light and revs,plus the shorter rods would help reduce piston speed a tad.