Slant Six Forum :: Trying to LED my car, which flasher?

I ordered all the suggested parts from the Lighting Upgrade thread. The flasher mentioned in the most recent post was Grote 44891, it is 2 prong and has a little ground wire. I tried it and nothing, no lights, no flash, no sound.

Also of note, I noticed that when I installed LED brake lights, along with the new Flasher unit, I then had no brake lights either?

Is all the lighting running through that Flasher unit first? Even if it isn't engaged to flash?

If I simply swap out an old light (incandescent) for a new LED, shouldn't I get light?

I was using Sylvania 7528, 1034, 1141 and 1157A which all work with the old flasher (Wagner).

I am going to try 2 things: pop in the LED brake lights and see what happens.

I am going to try to reverse the wires and attach to the new Flasher unit and see if anything happens.

Also the LED upgrade, are we able to replace the Tail lights as well in the trunk lid? Which LED # would that be?

What I bought from Amazon:
Philips 1157 P21/5w Red extreme, 1156 P21w white and the Grote flasher.

I quick search on Philips site says the Extreme Line is not valid for my car

Ok update #2, with pics

Yesterday when I tried the swap, including the flasher, nothing worked in the rear, however I did not push the sockets into the body, I just had them laying in the trunk, so perhaps lack of ground was at fault? no matter as I wasn't getting any clicking.

Ok so today's test, everything old (Wagner 552 12v) except 2 new Philips 1157 Extreme Red in the back. Hit brakes, they light up. Try signals, they blink as they should. Everything is working. However here are some pictures taken on a cloudy day. You are going to notice the throw on the LEDs is certainly not full, and clearly you can see the element shape? See these pictures:

Incandescent brake light close up:

LED brake light close up:

Incandescent brake lights 12 feet away:

LED brake lights 12 feet away:

I am not sure I like the idea of the "Eyeball effect" on those back lights. And it is much less coverage of the lense which is a safety concern. I will try this same test at night and see if I can get some pictures.

I had a pair of Amber Sylvania 1157A, I know wrong color, but it gave me a great idea of how much coverage on the lense could happen, and it was much closer to the incandescent light, fuller, only slightly dark in the dead center.

I also placed an order for the Philips normal Red

I will note: the Philips Extreme Red was brighter than the Sylvania, maybe 25% more light. Too bad the shape of the light looked like an Eyeball.

What you're running into here, in general, is the main, central problem with all "LED bulbs": unlike a regular 1157 (or whatever other type of filament lamp), it's not a sure thing that a given "LED bulb" will work OK in any given lamp that physically accepts it.

I want to add, there is markings on the Sylvania Zevo that says: FOR OFF ROAD VEHICLES ONLY.?? What in the heck?

Doesn't the 65 Dart brake assembly have 2 bulbs? instead of one?

It is certainly a different shape, less concave, more squared.

Author:	gdizzle [ Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:59 am ]
Post subject:	Trying to LED my car, which flasher?
Starting up my own thread so I don't hijack someone elses. I ordered all the suggested parts from the Lighting Upgrade thread. The flasher mentioned in the most recent post was Grote 44891, it is 2 prong and has a little ground wire. I tried it and nothing, no lights, no flash, no sound. In looking over older threads, I see the mention of 2 other Flasher units. One is Novita EL12, and another is United Pacific. Do I need one of those instead? I am running 66 dart, mostly stock wiring. Also of note, I noticed that when I installed LED brake lights, along with the new Flasher unit, I then had no brake lights either? Is all the lighting running through that Flasher unit first? Even if it isn't engaged to flash? If I simply swap out an old light (incandescent) for a new LED, shouldn't I get light?

Author:	sandy in BC [ Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:
Sometimes with LED installs funny things happen. Even when you buy the right stuff. My LED light install insisted on a stock crappy flasher. It refused to work with the one prescribed. I don't question these things......

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Trying to LED my car, which flasher?
Quote: I ordered all the suggested parts from the Lighting Upgrade thread. The flasher mentioned in the most recent post was Grote 44891, it is 2 prong and has a little ground wire. I tried it and nothing, no lights, no flash, no sound. Wait a sec -- that might not be a workable flasher for your setup. What bulbs are you running in your brake lights and in your front turn signals? Quote: Also of note, I noticed that when I installed LED brake lights, along with the new Flasher unit, I then had no brake lights either? That's not the flasher's fault, something else is wrong. If everything works OK with regular bulbs, then the problem is probably faulty LED bulbs. Otherwise faulty turn signal switch, wiring, or sockets. Quote: Is all the lighting running through that Flasher unit first? Even if it isn't engaged to flash? No. The brake light feed runs through the turn signal switch (which is why a faulty TS switch can kill your brake lights) but the flasher is in the circuit only for turn signal operation. Quote: If I simply swap out an old light (incandescent) for a new LED, shouldn't I get light? That's diagnostic step number one...you tell us!

Author:	gdizzle [ Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:42 am ]
Post subject:
I was using Sylvania 7528, 1034, 1141 and 1157A which all work with the old flasher (Wagner). I am going to try 2 things: pop in the LED brake lights and see what happens. If that works, then I am going to try to reverse the wires and attach to the new Flasher unit and see if anything happens. Also the LED upgrade, are we able to replace the Tail lights as well in the trunk lid? Which LED # would that be? What I bought from Amazon: Philips 1157 P21/5w Red extreme, 1156 P21w white and the Grote flasher. I quick search on Philips site says the Extreme Line is not valid for my car? Did I buy the wrong lights?

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:22 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: I was using Sylvania 7528, 1034, 1141 and 1157A which all work with the old flasher (Wagner). OK, then it's probably not the switches or wiring. Quote: I am going to try 2 things: pop in the LED brake lights and see what happens. Wait, I thought you said you installed the LED brake lights and they don't work either as turn signals or as brake lights. Quote: I am going to try to reverse the wires and attach to the new Flasher unit and see if anything happens. Don't think this will get you anywhere, but probably won't hurt anything. Quote: Also the LED upgrade, are we able to replace the Tail lights as well in the trunk lid? Which LED # would that be? No effective or safe LED upgrade for those. You have to use the one and only correct bulb, which is a difficult-to-find 1095. Call up Candlepower (800-368-2700 or 301-340-0224), speak to Kenny or Bill, and see if they still have any of them. If so, probably still good price by the 10-pack. If not, it's this steep per-bulb price. Quote: What I bought from Amazon: Philips 1157 P21/5w Red extreme, 1156 P21w white and the Grote flasher. Those are correct for the brake lights and reversing lamps. Quote: I quick search on Philips site says the Extreme Line is not valid for my car Statistically your car doesn't exist any more.

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Author:	gdizzle [ Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:
Ok update #2, with pics Yesterday when I tried the swap, including the flasher, nothing worked in the rear, however I did not push the sockets into the body, I just had them laying in the trunk, so perhaps lack of ground was at fault? no matter as I wasn't getting any clicking. Ok so today's test, everything old (Wagner 552 12v) except 2 new Philips 1157 Extreme Red in the back. Hit brakes, they light up. Try signals, they blink as they should. Everything is working. However here are some pictures taken on a cloudy day. You are going to notice the throw on the LEDs is certainly not full, and clearly you can see the element shape? See these pictures: Incandescent brake light close up: LED brake light close up: Incandescent brake lights 12 feet away: LED brake lights 12 feet away: I am not sure I like the idea of the "Eyeball effect" on those back lights. And it is much less coverage of the lense which is a safety concern. I will try this same test at night and see if I can get some pictures.

Author:	Reed [ Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Ok update #2, with pics Yesterday when I tried the swap, including the flasher, nothing worked in the rear, however I did not push the sockets into the body, I just had them laying in the trunk, so perhaps lack of ground was at fault? no matter as I wasn't getting any clicking. Ok so today's test, everything old (Wagner 552 12v) except 2 new Philips 1157 Extreme Red in the back. Hit brakes, they light up. Try signals, they blink as they should. Everything is working. However here are some pictures taken on a cloudy day. You are going to notice the throw on the LEDs is certainly not full, and clearly you can see the element shape? See these pictures: Incandescent brake light close up: LED brake light close up: Incandescent brake lights 12 feet away: LED brake lights 12 feet away: I am not sure I like the idea of the "Eyeball effect" on those back lights. And it is much less coverage of the lense which is a safety concern. I will try this same test at night and see if I can get some pictures. In my mind those pictures prove Dan's longstanding warning about LED retrofit lights not providing sufficient light in the right places when used in stock lamp housings designed for incandescent bulbs. Newer is not always better.

Author:	gdizzle [ Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:
And here are the pics of the step prior to trying the LEDs: BEFORE AFTER

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:
Hey, let's hear it for easy fixes, yeah, the sockets have to be installed because otherwise no ground. WOW, big difference between '65 Dart I tiested with these bulbs (works great) and '66 you tried (big black band, you're right, not acceptable). Try these new ones instead. Reflector resto: nice work! How'd the white ones work in your back-up lights if you tried them?

Author:	gdizzle [ Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:
OK, unable to take pictures at night, to much glare. I had a pair of Amber Sylvania 1157A, I know wrong color, but it gave me a great idea of how much coverage on the lense could happen, and it was much closer to the incandescent light, fuller, only slightly dark in the dead center. So I have placed order for Red version. I also placed an order for the Philips normal Red (called Intense Red), the shape is different than the Red Extreme and might have better coverage. It was also much less $$$$. Will post pics and my findings in a few days. I will note: the Philips Extreme Red was brighter than the Sylvania, maybe 25% more light. Too bad the shape of the light looked like an Eyeball.

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: I had a pair of Amber Sylvania 1157A, I know wrong color, but it gave me a great idea of how much coverage on the lense could happen, and it was much closer to the incandescent light, fuller, only slightly dark in the dead center. Noted. I'm still amazed at the big difference between '65 and '66 Dart, given the geometry is so similar. That dead centre is why these bulbs don't work in lamps with Fresnel lenses. Quote: I also placed an order for the Philips normal Red I generally avoid those; they don't put out much light. But they work OK in some lamps. Quote: I will note: the Philips Extreme Red was brighter than the Sylvania, maybe 25% more light. Too bad the shape of the light looked like an Eyeball. That might change when you have the red ones. Is the socket "keyed" in '66, so it can only go into the reflector in one clock position? What you're running into here, in general, is the main, central problem with all "LED bulbs": unlike a regular 1157 (or whatever other type of filament lamp), it's not a sure thing that a given "LED bulb" will work OK in any given lamp that physically accepts it. You can automatically rule out the big mountain of off-brand junk (doesn't work safely in any lamp) but even the few kinds of legit ones are a try-and-see thing. Good idea to assess the performance of these bulbs in your particular lamps by comparing them side-by-side with the original incandescents as reasonably well described here.

Author:	sandy in BC [ Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: What you're running into here, in general, is the main, central problem with all "LED bulbs": unlike a regular 1157 (or whatever other type of filament lamp), it's not a sure thing that a given "LED bulb" will work OK in any given lamp that physically accepts it. Yes

Author:	gdizzle [ Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:
I want to add, there is markings on the Sylvania Zevo that says: FOR OFF ROAD VEHICLES ONLY.?? What in the heck? I am still awaiting the White Philips. Doesn't the 65 Dart brake assembly have 2 bulbs? instead of one? It is certainly a different shape, less concave, more squared.

Author:	gdizzle [ Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:
Update 3 more pics: Concerning the Backup Lights 1156. I got the Philips white LEDs. I have not chrome painted the reflectors on these yet. So WSYIWYG. Due to the design of the lense the center band looks strange in the pics, but in real life it mimics the Incandescent almost exactly. The light however it white, as opposed to the yellowy glare of the incandescent. See for yourself: Incandescent Backup light 1156 Philips LED White Backup light 1156 X-treme P21w $29.99 for pair One of each

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Author:	SlantSixDan [ Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: I want to add, there is markings on the Sylvania Zevo that says: FOR OFF ROAD VEHICLES ONLY.?? What in the heck? How long and detailed of an answer do you want? The short version is there are several completely non-BS reasons why you really and truly don't need to worry about that warning in this case. Quote: Doesn't the 65 Dart brake assembly have 2 bulbs? instead of one? No. Same deal as '66: brake/tail in the outboard, tail-only in the inboard. Quote: It is certainly a different shape, less concave, more squared. The '65 and '66 Dart tails (except on wagons) swap directly with one another as complete assemblies. Real good result with the reversing lamps. Not much point painting the "reflectors" because they're not reflectors, just housings. Those lenses actually have Fresnel-type optics, they're just linear instead of round. Light straight off the bulb --> lens.