Slant Six Forum :: First fire successfull....but some issues

Got the timing set at 16 with the vac advance disconnected.

Engine ruins a smidge rough...

irst an oil leak---back at the back on the pan......

That is too much, back it off to 10-12 and try again...more advance will lean out an engine if the mix remains constant and is not into the mains on the carb...

How did you rough in your valve lash? once brrak in was done and the engine was hot, I would have lowered the idle and set the lash properly... if you set the lash cold without adding some 'play' then the gap will be too tight when warmed up and act like a cammed engine....

If it's not the rear main seal (I didn't have time to watch the video, you can clean up the gasket between the pan and the block rail/rear main seal retainer with some cleaner, then pack some RTV in there then let it set for 48 hours to cure... that will take care of that sealing issue... if it persists after that...the rear main seal may be tanked....

I was trying for 12 but it wouldnt idle fast enough.....

The lash was set by the shop , cold, according to the lash required by the cam.

SHOULDNT HAVE TO.....brand new rebuild

Then something is not right here...carb or cam...

This is where I get to admonish the shop, there is no "cold lash" on the cam card only the hot lash... for break in you set the lach cold to about .003-.005 or so looser than the hot lash value so it is close...

Time to lash it correctly to the cam card lash when hot...

The bad part is, if the shop didn't check the crank surface where the rear main seal rides and if they didn't smooth off the knurrling that may have still been there for the stock rope seal... it could shred the seal lip and cause a leak... a half minute work with a strip of 300-500 grit would have taken care of that....

Spray carb cleaner around the throttle shafts. I would be suspicious of the bushings being worn out. That is pretty common on BBD''s.

On the oil leak, make sure it is not running down from the back of the valve cover. I put a rear seal in my race motor once only to discover it was really the valve cover at the rear lower corner.

The trick is, how to spary around the shafts without getting it into the throat?

the fast idle and idle screws were wound all the way in when I got it....

look very closely for that leak, it could be coming from just about anywhere.
I hope you don't have to remove the pan.

Sounds like the common little things that tell you,"Your not quite done yet." Keep at it, you'll get it.

A friend suggested that if it is a rope seal, it may need to swell a little....

Author:	shadango [ Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:	First fire successfull....but some issues
Got the rebuilt slat 6 running today with the sons. Great to hear it fire up. yay. Got the timing set at 16 with the vac advance disconnected. The carb seems to have run out out idle screw adjustment....when I got the carb it was run all the way in, to the springs being compressed......both the fast idle and idle......but tha tsaidm after tinkering with the timing and idle a bit, it will work where its at for now at least. That aside --- a couple of things I am worried about.... First an oil leak---back at the back on the pan......this video was taken with the engine rpms at 1500 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4MiueKS3fk I snugged up the pan bolts just a little and no change. I get a bad vibe on this. Aside from that, when under the hood we hear a bit of a "rumble"....like an exhaust leak maybe but I cannot find one....almost sounds like the sound I hear in my headers on the fish....but the cast iron manifold wouldnt sound olike that would it? Looked and felt for leaks......looked for vacuum leaks too...used carb cleaner....found nothing...... Engine ruins a smidge rough....Wondering about this cam I got -- how smooth should it be? I dont care if its SUPPOSED to be a little bumpy...but should it be? The cam in my Barracuda 318 is lumpy as can be...LOL..... I am glad it is running....but that leak has me extremely panic ridden...... Why cant anything go easy? I guess I will send the video to the engine builder and see what he says too.... Thanks for the support folks.

Author:	shadango [ Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:
We just got back from driving it around the block a few times. It didnâ€™t blow up and we made it homeâ€¦LOL I guess next step is pull the inspection plate and see if I can tell for sure.....maybe its "just " a pan gasket. Not sure a pan gasket Is any better than a main on this engine thoughâ€¦..can't drop the pan with it in the carâ€¦.. Not in the mood to undo everything we did. Oh .. it doesnâ€™t want to idleâ€¦â€¦.put it in gear and it hunts hard for idle --high then real low, high then low, high then low then stalls......and it doesnâ€™t seem like the kickdown is set up rightâ€¦..still a lot of tweaking and adjusting to do I guessâ€¦..got all the vacuum/emissions stuff on there and it adds to the complexity in some ways........maybe we have something crossed vacuum wise? I sent the video to the builder to get his input on the leak. Some pics of the install as it stands...looks decent...not perfect but nice. Just have to get these issues figured out...... [/URL]

Author:	DusterIdiot [ Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Couple thoughts...
Quote: Got the timing set at 16 with the vac advance disconnected. That is too much, back it off to 10-12 and try again...more advance will lean out an engine if the mix remains constant and is not into the mains on the carb... Quote: Engine ruins a smidge rough... How did you rough in your valve lash? once brrak in was done and the engine was hot, I would have lowered the idle and set the lash properly... if you set the lash cold without adding some 'play' then the gap will be too tight when warmed up and act like a cammed engine.... Quote: irst an oil leak---back at the back on the pan...... If it's not the rear main seal (I didn't have time to watch the video, you can clean up the gasket between the pan and the block rail/rear main seal retainer with some cleaner, then pack some RTV in there then let it set for 48 hours to cure... that will take care of that sealing issue... if it persists after that...the rear main seal may be tanked.... A few things to think about...

Author:	shadango [ Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Couple thoughts...
Quote: That is too much, back it off to 10-12 and try again...more advance will lean out an engine if the mix remains constant and is not into the mains on the carb... I'll give it another shot....I was trying for 12 but it wouldnt idle fast enough..... Quote: How did you rough in your valve lash? once brrak in was done and the engine was hot, I would have lowered the idle and set the lash properly... if you set the lash cold without adding some 'play' then the gap will be too tight when warmed up and act like a cammed engine.... The lash was set by the shop , cold, according to the lash required by the cam. I am planning to set the lash (that will be fun.....all the dame vacuum lines and what not).....it IS a cammed engine....it is the RV10-RDP from Oregon cam grinding. From what I understood it isnt a big cam.....just mild, right? Quote: If it's not the rear main seal (I didn't have time to watch the video, you can clean up the gasket between the pan and the block rail/rear main seal retainer with some cleaner, then pack some RTV in there then let it set for 48 hours to cure... that will take care of that sealing issue... if it persists after that...the rear main seal may be tanked.... Was wondering if that is something that is doable. SHOULDNT HAVE TO.....brand new rebuild...but if I can get it to seal ok that way I guess its the way to go.....will have to pull off the inspection plate and take a look. SO just hose it all down with cleaner? I guess there goes the new paint on the pan.... Thanks for this feedback!!!!

Author:	DusterIdiot [ Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:	But...
Quote: I was trying for 12 but it wouldnt idle fast enough..... Then something is not right here...carb or cam... Quote: The lash was set by the shop , cold, according to the lash required by the cam. This is where I get to admonish the shop, there is no "cold lash" on the cam card only the hot lash... for break in you set the lach cold to about .003-.005 or so looser than the hot lash value so it is close... Time to lash it correctly to the cam card lash when hot... This cam is basically your stock cam with a little more lift to let the engine breathe...so it's isn't really cammed (once you slide an Isky 268 OCG 346 in there...it will definitely be cammed at that point and be 'lumpy', short cams get this way when the lash it too tight causing the lifter to ride the lobe harder and causing an artificial bump in duration which is not good for the lifters/lobes/ smooth operation of the engine) Quote: SHOULDNT HAVE TO.....brand new rebuild The bad part is, if the shop didn't check the crank surface where the rear main seal rides and if they didn't smooth off the knurrling that may have still been there for the stock rope seal... it could shred the seal lip and cause a leak... a half minute work with a strip of 300-500 grit would have taken care of that....

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First fire successfull....but some issues https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60390	Page 1 of 6

Author:	slantzilla [ Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:
Spray carb cleaner around the throttle shafts. I would be suspicious of the bushings being worn out. That is pretty common on BBD''s. On the oil leak, make sure it is not running down from the back of the valve cover. I put a rear seal in my race motor once only to discover it was really the valve cover at the rear lower corner.

Author:	shadango [ Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: But...
Quote: Then something is not right here...carb or cam... Hoping its the carb..... Quote: This is where I get to admonish the shop, there is no "cold lash" on the cam card only the hot lash... for break in you set the lach cold to about .003-.005 or so looser than the hot lash value so it is close... Time to lash it correctly to the cam card lash when hot... I cant honestly say I recall what he said he set it to.....obviously cold, because he built the engine...didnt run it. The cam card info from Oregon says to set it at .015 intake/exhaust Quote: The bad part is, if the shop didn't check the crank surface where the rear main seal rides and if they didn't smooth off the knurrling that may have still been there for the stock rope seal... it could shred the seal lip and cause a leak... a half minute work with a strip of 300-500 grit would have taken care of that.... Well, crossing my fingers.....I know he did recondition the crank.....we talked about it, I got charged for it. No reason to think he didnt (yet).......this makes me nervous....

Author:	shadango [ Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:46 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Spray carb cleaner around the throttle shafts. I would be suspicious of the bushings being worn out. That is pretty common on BBD''s. On the oil leak, make sure it is not running down from the back of the valve cover. I put a rear seal in my race motor once only to discover it was really the valve cover at the rear lower corner. Thanks for this info.....gonna try that. The trick is, how to spary around the shafts without getting it into the throat? ANY overspray would cause an idle uptick right? The previous owner of the carb said it was running great in his ride when he shelved it for an upgrade......but who knows. Like I said, I did notice that the fast idle and idle screws were wound all the way in when I got it....

Author:	bboogieart [ Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:43 am ]
Post subject:
Glad you got it running. Sounds like the common little things that tell you, "Your not quite done yet." Keep at it, you'll get it. Quote: The trick is, how to spary around the shafts without getting it into the throat? The shaft ends are visible at the base on the outside. You should be able to spray around the base on the outside of the carb and not get near the inlet. Use the little red straw for better aim. You will get an increase in rpm if the bushings are bad. Bad bushings=vacuum leak. Quote: the fast idle and idle screws were wound all the way in when I got it.... This is a little concerning. (Major vacuum leak?) Back to the shaft bushings. I doubt a spray cleaner will remove your fresh paint as long as it has had time to cure. I use brake clean to remove grease and oil. It dries fast and clean. It should not remove your paint either. As mentioned above, look very closely for that leak, it could be coming from just about anywhere. I hope you don't have to remove the pan. I've had to remove motors before for such things. Not a fun thought, but not so bad once finally finished and running right. Remember, patients is a virtue. Not one of my strong points either, but at my advancing age, it is coming a little easier.

Author:	shadango [ Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:31 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: look very closely for that leak, it could be coming from just about anywhere. I hope you don't have to remove the pan. I am under there now......removed the inspection cover. The distance between the oil pan edge and the main is so close...how would I tell which it is coming from? I guess I would have to disconnect the convertor and push it back a little so as to gain any clearance for RTV, or drop the trans..... Looked all around the valve cover gasket and it looks dry to me....I see nothing coming "down" externally on the engine...... I see a oil residue, a partial drop hanging ABOVE the starter inside the bell housing....on the upper bellhousing inside surface.....which I guess could indicate oil from "above" or in fact a main seal leaking and splashing /flinging up ?? I looked all over the top of the engine and up the sides from down below....been staring at it all a while.....and see nothing coming from above...... The bolts securing the flex plate to the crank appear to be damp with oil -- maybe---hard to tell.....but no drips...no heavy oil on the crank flange itself at all.....no heavy oil residue on the convertor...... I am home alone right now and dont want to run the engine with me under the car on jackstands so I will have to wait till I have a helper.... Its hard to see around the eback edge of the pan so I am not sure if I will be able to tell anything with it running or not....... Quote: Sounds like the common little things that tell you,"Your not quite done yet." Keep at it, you'll get it. I am trying to stay hopeful...but this car has been fighting us at every turn.....starting to lose my "mojo". If the engine has to come out again or the pan has to get dropped, which judging by the leak one of the two will have to happen...well......feeling pretty bummed, to be honest. Wet weather moving in for today so work has stopped for now....

Author:	SlantSteve [ Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:
Do you know what type of main seal was used? The newer rope seals are a poor cousin from the rope seals of old and resemble a soft banana. I have used the Felpro 2 piece with great success ,others will no doubt have their own thoughts on seal preference. I'm thinking a rear seal or the seal housing retaining bolts are your likely issues.....I'm very sorry to say that. As for the idle,once again this may be a little controversial to some and we all have our own preferences,but the specs I've seen on the RV 10 cam shows very very slow lash ramps,what this means is lash adjustment will have a great effect on idle. As a very basic example if you set the lash at zero the cam would be close to a 300' duration,set it at .020" lash it would be a very mild duration,approx 250'. There is a post around here where the specs are posted,look at the cam doctor sheet and see all the specs and you'll see what I mean. Basically this cams lash is more critical to how this cam will idle compared to a cam with a more aggressive ramp in my book. I'd do the lash as suggested,ignore the cam card,only a ball park figure. Is there anyone out there that actually runs on that can recommend a good lash? Was this carb on the engine previously? Was it running OK? If so it would rule out that as an issue.

Author:	my5thmopar [ Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:
How about the plug in the back of the block? Missing or loose? My two cents. Craig

Author:	'67 Dart 270 [ Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:	oil leak
I had a newly rebuilt engine leak oil like that after break in, I think it was as someone said above, they didn't polish the crank knurling where the seal goes, and used a polymer rear seal. Oil was pouring out just like that when I ran it. It was enough flow that I thought it was the rear plug as well, but alas it was the rear seal. Brian

Author:	shadango [ Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:41 am ]
Post subject:
A friend suggested that if it is a rope seal, it may need to swell a little.... We only ran it for break in and a trip around the block. He said he has seen rope seals that , once the car sat overnight after running it, the seal swelled and all was fine. He is pretty experienced, much as you all are so I am holding a glimmer of hope that's the case..... I guess there is no one answer here. The engine builder has been at it for 40 years and comes highly recommended...I suppose that even with experience, issues can occur.... Crossing my fingers we are not looking at having to R&R the engine again..... <sigh>

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Author:	DusterIdiot [ Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:34 am ]
Post subject:	Probably not a rope seal...
Quote: A friend suggested that if it is a rope seal, it may need to swell a little.... I doubt it's a rope seal...if your builder bought a Felpro or Victor-Reinz master gasket set, then you got the neoprene rear seal...it would be counter productive to buy a $90 gasket set then blow another $20 on a rope seal for the engine... and as a professional, if they did use one they would tell you so you don't panic after it weeps, along with recommended break in procedure...