I'm consolidating parts to send to a guy in Norway for his Slant-6 Valiant. He wants an RV-10RDP (Oregon № 2106R) cam. Doesn't make sense for him to send his core clear across the ocean, so I told him I'd call OCG and see if they have any cores.

I call, tell 'em I'm the one who sent in the original they measured to make the № 2106R available, ask if they have any solid-lifter Slant-6 cams on the shelf ready to grind.

Guy comes back "You need a cam for a 170 or a 225?"

Um.

I say "Same cam."

He says "No, they're not! The 170 cam is much wider and the 225 cam is much skinnier!"

I say "I'm reluctant to argue with you, because you do camshafts for a living and I don't, but...same cam."

He says (perfectly nicely) "I'm glad you're not in a mood to argue about it, because no, they're not. I have a 170 core on the shelf, but I won't have any 225 cores for a couple weeks."

This is the first I have ever heard of such a thing. The factory and aftermarket parts cattledogs don't back him up. Neither does anyone or anything else I have ever seen, heard, or read on the subject.

Can anyone here (Reed? Dusteridjit? Doc?) reverse-engineer what he said and explain where his train of thought might've started?

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Oh no.. maybe we are all in for some kind of education!

Greg

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http://www.youtube.com/hyperpack

Uhhhhhhhh, I'm drawing a blank. 170s and 225s use the same lifters and cam bearings. To the best of my knowledge, and I do not recall ever having come across any information source stating to the contrary, the ONLY difference between the 170 and the 225 was the crank, connecting rod, and deck height.

Is he referring to the cam lobe profile? I.E. the 170 cam has a longer duration, which COULD be described as a "wider" lobe? Or maybe he was confused between the hydraulic vs. mechanical cam profile where the mechanical lobe could be descibed as "wider" than the hydraulic lobe?

Maybe call back tomorrow and try and reach a different worker?

This reminds me of the time I went to the parts counter at a Ford dealer and asked to buy an oil pump for a 1984 smallblock Ford and the parts guy said they didn't sell those because it was such an old engine. Never mind they probably had crate smallblock motors in the back room.

Anybody have the list of factory cam profiles handy? I have never messed with a 170....

Any way, I probably have a couple 225 core cams gathering dust and rust in the garage. I would be happy to part with one for a song, just not a country song.

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

No, he said "The lobes are the same, but the space between the lobes, that's wide on the 170 cam and skinny on the 225".

Which does not explain why the ONLY place where a different cam is listed for the 170 vs the 225 in the factory parts books is in '65 when the 225 got a new, slightly more aggressive grind and the 170 stayed with the previous grind until '66 when it, too, was given the slightly more aggressive grind.

The guy's wrong. But why would he think that?

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

225 from '60-'64 and 170 from '60-'65 had a cam with specs 232° intake duration, 228° exhaust duration, 0.37x" lift, and 8° overlap.

225-1bbl from '64-'70 and 170 from '66-'69 (+'70 export) and 198 in '70 had a cam with specs 241° intake duration, 236° exhaust duration, 0.39x" lift, and 16° overlap.

225-2bbl (export only) from '67 on and 225 (domestic) from '71-'80 and 198 from '71-'74 had a cam with specs 244° intake and exhaust duration, 0.420"/0.414" lift, and 26° overlap.
…I'd offer "Simply Having a Wonderful Christmastime" by Paul McCartney, but that would probably get me whacked to death with a camshaft.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Probably. But seriously, if he needs a 225 cam core, drop me a line.

My guess is he is just mistaken. He was probably born long after the last 170 was cast at the foundry, possibly even after the last 225 was cast as a factory crate replacement engine.

Anybody have a 170 cam and a 225 cam and a micrometer handy?

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

Dan did you get his name?

Every time I've dealt with them, I always talk to Ken directly or in person. That being said I always tell him directly what I need and provide a core, except in 2 cases (one was the roller cam, the other was for a race cam where I asked for a new hydro blank with the grooved rear cam journal)...

There is no difference in the cam blank itself 170/198/225.... they may have misunderstood the difference between the 60's OEM grind being a 170 cam, and the late 60's-70's being 225....they grind cams all day and lots of them from pinto cams to locomotive cams.... They also can groove the rear main on a solid core to make a hydro cam too... but they aren't as specific as we are being specialists... What makes me think he responded as he did was it's not the lobe or duration that's "wider" but the lobe separation angle... The normal LSA we think of for the 1970's cam is 108, but I'm not seeing where the earliest cams or where a 170 would benefit from something like a 110 or 112 LSA... (but when grinding for a ram tuned manifold or a boosted application those LSA numbers aren't out of the ordinary).

Personally I think he just wasn't in the 'know' like the rest of us...

Lobe separation may be it.......

They may be differentiating the cores themselves.

More material removal to get a 108 on a 112 core than if it was a 108 core...........

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

Ahhh. Makes sense.

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

There are some cam cores with a thicker shaft. I got one from Oregon Cam Grinding for the Bonneville engine. Imagine the shaft being thick enough that it nearly comes to the base circle of the lobes. I was told by OCG that the smaller shaft was done for rod clearance, but it think that's a mistake. So if you want a really heavy, strong cam, buy the "170" cam.

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Joshua

I think I went through this myself. A few years have passed since I had Ken at OCG grind my turbo cam. I brought him the cam from my 62 225 to have it ground and he thought it was a 170 cam. I think we came to the conclusion that he was mistaken and the early slant cams were thicker cores, but had the same lobes.

If I remember correctly I double checked with Ed Yost at wildcat and he confirmed that it was not 170 vs. 225, but early vs. not quite as early. Ken reluctantly ground the fat looking cam and it works fine in my 225.

B

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These ones go to eleven...

OK, so this is one of those "If it has a Carter BBS that means it's a 170 and if it has a Holley 1920 that means it's a 225" things. Thanks. He also said he could tell by the casting numbers on the cores which were "170" and which were "225" cams.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I have a BBS on my 225.....

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

I bought a NOS crane cam a while back for my build. The only reason I bought it was because I didn't trust the new billets (if you can find one ) and my intention was to regrind it to the specs I wanted and since it had decent lift already I'd retain a decent sized base circle,anyways,It was the larger diameter design. I assumed it was just due to being an aftermarket billet. Either way it ground up and worked just fine in a 225. Not that the build was anything over the top but the thicker shaft would be a better thing in my opinion anyway.

I will be sure to investigate as soon as I get to pulling the '62 & '64 170's
apart. In the meantime, the only lobe width/core dia. I've ever seen that is
different, is the Crane cam I used in the 1.0 version of my slanty. The core
barrel was nearly out to the base circles, and the lobes were freaky wide,
wider than the lifters.