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Disassembly of engine finished
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=62116		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  wjajr [ Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Disassembly of engine finished
Engine guy said I could save a few bucks ($70/hr) if it came to him disassembled. So it's all apart, gaskets scraped off, threads chased, bolts wire brushed cleaned, all parts bagged up and labeled. #6 piston had a broken top ring, mains & connecting rod bearings show some signs of light wear. Hopefully cylinders are round and in speck. Engine has 30 over pistons, some slight markings on skirts.

Oil pump has no play, I did not crack it open and check clearances, I'll let machinist mess with that. I read somewhere here to pack oil pump with Vaseline to help prime oil system on first start after rebuild; is the correct?

Found double timing chain and steel gears with very little slop much less that the 3/16" limit FSM allows.

Harmonic Balancer shows cracks in rubber, and snout is grooved from front oil seal; I'll need a new one. Timing tab, looking at front of engine is on right side of timing cover.

Rock auto lists several:
Dayco PB1001N
ATP 102210
Dorman 594243
Slant 6 dot org favorite.
Or some other brand, perhaps whatever machinist wants to use.

This shop has the ability to balance crankshaft, and weigh pistons & rods. Should I have lower end blueprinted?

Reground cam and new lifters should be here Friday.

Bill
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Disassembly of engine finished
The Pioneer damper (or the ATP, or the Dayco PowerBond, or the Dorman) is a couple of mouseclicks away; any of them will work fine on your engine. Most of them are good quality Australian parts.
Author:  Joshie225 [ Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Disassembly of engine finished
It sounds like you'll get this done on the cheap side. :) A good quality timing set won't stretch too much after it breaks in so I'd keep it.

I don't pack the oil pump. You just need enough STP, white lithium grease or assembly lube in there that the pump elements seal against one another and draw oil from the pan.

You can weight match the pistons and rods and balance the crank, but it's almost certainly close enough as-is. I think a good question to ask yourself is how much is it worth to be able to tell people that your motor has been balanced?
Author:  wjajr [ Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Disassembly of engine finished
Josh:
Quote:
I think a good question to ask yourself is how much is it worth to be able to tell people that your motor has been balanced
Hummm. X dollars spent on slant six balance job, eye roll at car show priceless while yapping about it. You have a point there Josh, cheap bastard logarithm back in control of build.
Author:  coconuteater64 [ Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Disassembly of engine finished
I've always packed the oil pump with Vaseline. Old farmer's trick.
Author:  wjajr [ Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Disassembly of engine finished
New ATP 107710 balancer on the way thanks to Dan's much less expensive Amazon listing. My Walmart store manager son won't like that purchase going to the competition. LOL Lucky I don't own any WMT, however I do have a small position in ANZN that is doing well.

Oil pickup freed from its entrapment, it was stuck hard even with the flame wrench treatment.

All that engine stuff is packed up ready for transportation to machine shop. I have to impose on other son to use his PU truck for the delivery. All that crap won't fit in the 300, and my 1967 1200 B 3/4 ton IH pickup is not on the road yet.

Winter rages on here in the NE, it was -6* in northern Maine this lovely spring morning, and another noreastah on the way. First car show is May 6, I'll have to pack a snow shovel and some sand for the hour and half ride that day to be on the safe side.
Author:  emsvitil [ Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Disassembly of engine finished
It's not hard to weight balance the rods and pistons yourself, so I would do that.

As for the crank.................. How much does that cost? Then I would decide.
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Disassembly of engine finished
Quote:
how much is it worth to be able to tell people that your motor has been balanced?
I paid to have my race engine crank balanced when I had it built. I had done some grinding on it to smooth things up and figured just to be safe I would have it balanced. When it came back I was told it was almost perfect as it was. It certainly would have been fine without it. And that is from a guy that is building $50,000 race engines every day. So I probably will not have another one done unless there is some special circumstances. Just some more info to ponder. :D
Author:  wjajr [ Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Disassembly of engine finished
After getting engine disassembled, all parts bagged & tagged, packed up for transport to machine shop, I took time to remeasure head's combustion chambers to confirm calculated volume. During first round, several different volumes were measured as much as 4cc off of calculated. So I repeated the process several times with Tractor Supply 60cc syringe coming within one cc over all six: some @ 40 & 39cc; call it 39.5cc's My calculations were correct, however I had water leakage past four valves... Not happy with that.

When the valve job was finished, got head back home and looked at the combustion chambers, only one had blueing slathered around suggesting only one valve was lapped in. Monday head will be taking a trip back to shop along with engine to finish the job.
Author:  Joshie225 [ Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Disassembly of engine finished
Lapping valves is old-school and not done with modern valve and valve seat finishing equipment, but no way should the valves have been leaking. :evil:
Author:  Dart270 [ Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Disassembly of engine finished
Probably they just put blue on there to check one cylinder and maybe do a cc job on that one. I agree with Josh.

Lou
Author:  wjajr [ Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Disassembly of engine finished
Engine block and all related parts have been at machine shop for a number of days progressing through the job queue reaching measurement segment of process; cylinder bores worn 0.006" over 3.430". Looks like a re-bore to 40 over and new pistons. Best I can tell, block may have up to 90,000 miles on it since 30 over re-bore.

Machinist blames old school tight fitting thick rings of the day for lack of durability compared to current day engines. Said he see this in all the old engines that come through the door, and he rebuilds a lot of them.
Author:  DadTruck [ Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Disassembly of engine finished
Quote:
no way should the valves have been leaking
I have seen new valves in newly manufactured heads leak small quantities of water / lightly pressurized air many times.
valve and head seat: concentricity, waviness, surface finish and everything else,,all in spec,,,

take the same head assembled into an engine and run it on a dyno long enough to heat the engine oil, disassemble the motor and re check the valves and you will find the valves seal fine.

I would tell folks that if manufacturing tolerances were 0.0000 , you would not need to break in a new motor, but they are not, so yes, new or remanufactured motors need to be ran in prior to closely analyzing part to part fit.

When cc'ing a head with re built seats and you find one that leaks a small quantity of test fluid, smear a very light ring of the sealing grease that you are using to seal the plexiglass cover, around the valve heads.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Disassembly of engine finished
Quote:
Machinist blames old school tight fitting thick rings of the day for lack of durability compared to current day engines
I think it's probably more to do with yesterday's fuels burning very dirty, and way too much of it (glugged in almost at random by carburetors) washing yesterday's lousy oil off the cylinders.
Author:  wjajr [ Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Disassembly of engine finished
Engine re-build update:

Several weeks ago engine landed back in my basement shop, I got it dressed out and transmission bolted up. I had to wait for a second pair of transmission cooler lines to arrive, first set ordered in April were for rear pump rendition of 904 and miss-described in catalog.

Also installed a seal kit from Steer and Gear for small TRW PS pump while waiting for new lines to arrive. If that TRW pump dosen't act right I'm going to purchase some other unit that fits a 67 A body, Ive had it with the leaking mess.

Yesterday after waiting a few weeks for the moon & stars to align for for a second pair of hands to help get engine back in car; that alignment never occurred, so I just stuffed it in my self... Eight hours later, (hey I'm old and gravitational attraction of my creaking carcass is much stronger under a car than it was in back in the seventies). Engine now installed excepting an exhaust pipe problem, radiator, alternator, and power steering pump.

This morning I'll finish up the last few details of install, add fluids, and hopefully roll Dart out of basement for its brake-in.

Just to get this right, on my first brake in, once started idle to be turned up to 1500 to 2500 rpm with no curb idling for 20 or 25 minutes varying rpm occasionally between 15 & 2500 rpm, providing no leaks or crazy stuff happens; is this correct?

Engine oil system was pressure primed by builder. I think I may roll engine over on starter with plugs removed long enough to get oil light to extinguish, than install plugs and fire it off. Is this a good idea where priming took place several weeks ago.

Once brake-in sequence is completed, should engine be allowed cool down before its second start and general use begins?

How long should brake-in oil remain before first oil change?

Transmission at the moment is dry, it has deep sump pan, and will take about two quarts over factory fluid fill quantity. Should I just dump 7 quarts in, so it is lubricated during brake-in, and then top off as needed after run-in? Or if after turning engine over on starter to per-circulate engine oil, would that be enough to fill converter and get close to ideal fluid level?

I plan on not installing thermostat until after brake-in to make purging air easier.

Bill
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