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Oil pump tube - good or bad?
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63493		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  GregCon [ Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Oil pump tube - good or bad?
I searched a bit for this but didn't find anything....

My original oil pump had a 'stand pipe' type tube that extends into the oil filter. At the base of this tube are the threads that the oil filter threads on to. The replacement oil pump has the normal short fitting that the filter threads onto.

There was a little paper tag on my new pump that says 'If your old pump had the long tube, remove it and use it on this new pump.'

So...I'm wondering if its a good idea. I'm sure it will work either way but I'd be interested to know if anyone has given much thought to this topic?
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil pump tube - good or bad?
There has been some discussion on here I think about using or not using them. In a race application I am leaving mine out and eliminating a bit of a restriction. On a stock or mild build they are probably fine. I have run them in all my other cars
Author:  Reed [ Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil pump tube - good or bad?
I like them because it leaves oil in the filter for immediate oiling on startup. They came in several lengths over the years.
Author:  GregCon [ Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil pump tube - good or bad?
I'm trying to envision why it would leave oil in the filter.....
Author:  emsvitil [ Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil pump tube - good or bad?
The tube is the output side of the filter.
Author:  Dart270 [ Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil pump tube - good or bad?
For performance or high RPM applications, leave it out. I and other have had (mild) oil pressure drops as RPM rises above 4500 or so, and pulling it out fixed that. I never had one in a motor until about 8 yrs ago, and never had trouble. I will not use one again on anything. My 180k turbo motor that runs 12s has never had one and I've had 6-8 different heads and cams on/in that shortblock...

Lou
Author:  slantzilla [ Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil pump tube - good or bad?
I never use the tube either. I turn my junk more RPM than most, and have never had bearing issues. :shock:
Author:  GregCon [ Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil pump tube - good or bad?
OK I'll leave it out. It makes the filter a little harder to slide off, if nothing else.

It's on the output side of the filter...but why won't the hot oil drain back out the inlet side?
Author:  Reed [ Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil pump tube - good or bad?
It leaves a little bit of oil inside the tube. Just abit so the bearings aren't dry when the motor first starts turning over. It isn't really necessary if the oil fiter has a functioning anti-drainback valve. It actually makes it a smidge easier to install the filter in a truck or van where there is plenty of clearance. But what do I know. I don't race.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil pump tube - good or bad?
Quote:
I searched a bit for this but didn't find anything....
Do like this and find 226 matches.
Quote:
My original oil pump had a 'stand pipe' type tube that extends into the oil filter. At the base of this tube are the threads that the oil filter threads on to. The replacement oil pump has the normal short fitting that the filter threads onto.
The standpipe is the normal fitting. The shorty is the not-really-correct aftermarket cop-out.
Quote:
There was a little paper tag on my new pump that says 'If your old pump had the long tube, remove it and use it on this new pump.'
Good advice.
Quote:
So...I'm wondering if its a good idea.
Yes.
Quote:
I'd be interested to know if anyone has given much thought to this topic?
Yes.
Quote:
OK I'll leave it out.
Opposite of good idea, unless your goal is more/faster engine wear (or you're racing and have very different priorities than a street-driven engine).
Author:  GregCon [ Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil pump tube - good or bad?
I briefly combed through the standpipe threads and I'm not seeing any reason that it's an essential piece. It seems using an 806 type filter negates the need for the pipe....?

I know this much....none of the V8's built in the glory days of the Mopar Kingdom used a standpipe.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil pump tube - good or bad?
Quote:
I briefly combed through the standpipe threads and I'm not seeing any reason that it's an essential piece. It seems using an 806 type filter negates the need for the pipe....?
51806 Wix (or equivalent) does have a built-in standpipe, yes, and that works almost as well (no check valve).
Quote:
I know this much....none of the V8's built in the glory days of the Mopar Kingdom used a standpipe.
Before you make a final decision about how clever this bit of knowledge is, think harder about oil filter mounting angles.
Author:  GregCon [ Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil pump tube - good or bad?
I already did think about the angles. Doesn't change the facts.
Author:  NEVjr [ Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil pump tube - good or bad?
Quote:
I already did think about the angles. Doesn't change the facts.
You are correct that the facts are unchanged and undisputed. The thing is, you have drawn the wrong set of conclusions from them.

The stand pipe means that the bearings get oil earlier when the car is started because it doesn't allow all the oil to drain out of the filter while it sits without pressure. On the majority of street slants this is a significant factor to reducing wear. It does add some restriction while running, especially at high rpm, so race car set ups probably are improved without it.

The V8s all have filters that are somewhere between vertical with open/threaded end up, or horizontal. A stand pipe wouldn't hold any oil in this position and the filter also wont completely drain in this position, so the standpipe is unhelpful.

If you need a slant to run in your truck for the rest of your life with 150 hp, use the pipe. If you are endurance racing, or running a turbo, or you wont get the assembly lube fully flushed out before your 7k rpm dyno pulls, skip the pipe.

if it did nothing, would the factory have wasted hundreds of thousands of dollars on the lowest priced motors putting them in in the first place?
Author:  GregCon [ Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil pump tube - good or bad?
I haven't drawn any conclusions so it's not accurate to say I've drawn the wrong conclusion.

Oil drain back...I'd be interested to know if the oil really drains back, and how fast it drains back, and how much drains back. The stand pipe is on the pressure side of the filter, not the inlet side, so the path that oil would need to take to drain out of the filter (through the pressure side) is long and arduous. Mostly uphill, in fact, and liquids don't drain well uphill.

I'd be far more able to believe the oil drains out of the filter through the inlet side. That path is mostly downhill and shorter. The oil pump lobes might act as a barrier....I don't know.

If my Slant were running I might try some experimentation to see how long it takes to build pressure when started, with and without the stand pipe. Then I'd have more of an opinion.

The factory did lots of smart stuff...they also at times wasted money on things that proved of little or no use. For example, as much as we love left handed lugs....Chrysler ultimately gave up and went to RH lugs just like everyone else.
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