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1964 Valiant stalling when given gas in drive.
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Author:  Phalack [ Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:00 am ]
Post subject:  1964 Valiant stalling when given gas in drive.

Hello, obligatory "new to this forum" post, if i didn't post this in the correct board feel free to delete it.

I'm new to the world of classic cars, decided to start small by buying what i assumed was a relatively good beginners' car: a 1964 valiant 4-door with the 225 slant six and the A904 automatic pushbutton transmission. I test drove it in july, ran like a dream. didn't have any issues. I decided to wait a few weeks before fetching it (it was a few hours away from my home, and driving that lightweight car with no seatbelts or airbags down a highway filled with impatient BMW owners going 90mph wasn't exactly my cup of tea). On the day I get to it and prepare to drive home, the impossible happens: the car stalls. And by that, i mean, frequently. Every two or so stops. Don't have my tools with me, so I get it towed home. Once I get home, I check the car out, everything seems to be in its respectful place and the carburetor looks brand new. Puzzled, I take the car for a little drive around the neighborhood. Since the choke is broken (it's missing the spring apparently, didn't even notice it), I have to let it heat up for 5 minutes before hitting the road with it on summer days, otherwise it will stall everytime I give it gas. So, anyway, I head down the road, get the car's temperature nice and warm, and the car still stalls. I struggled to get it back home, and I took a look at the ignition: Distributor looks brand new, starter seems fine, coil is a little old but not too bad, fuel pump seems okay too. One big thing I noticed is that I can see the flywheel from the engine bay : I think there's a sheet of metal that is supposed to cover it à la dust shield, but it appears to be missing.

A couple weeks go by, I'm getting sick of not finding the issue. I call a family friend who's a mechanic, and he agrees to have a look at it. Here are the things he mentioned when I got my car back a few days later:

-The carburetor was rebuilt (hence why it looks new). TERRIBLY. It doesn't work properly.
-The choke doesn't work. It will need an entire choke assembly if possible.
-A radiator hose was leaking so he changed it.

These remarks left me quite perplexed. The thing is, I don't know if the carburator being bad would cause such problems. You see, whenever the car stalls (or tries to stall), it's in drive. It won't stall in neutral or park, even if I give it gas (unless the engine is cold, because no choke, remember ?). So, whenever I give it gas in drive and it acts up (which is no longer all the time after the mechanic "adjusted the carburetor"), it starts misfiring and wanting to stall. That's only when it's in drive. There also appears to be some noise, almost like constant backfiring or popping, coming from the back of the car, under the rear driverside door. I know that I have a small exhaust leak about there, so maybe it would be what's causing those pops.

So, obviously I don't want to start throwing parts at it until it works, as the car won't gain value anytime soon with it being a four door. I just want it to stop stalling on me.

So, as a bit of a TL:DR: Car stalls, only when in drive, mechanic said it was the carburetor, but i believe it to be something else because if it were the carburetor it would stall all the time, no ? not only when it's in drive ? whenever given gas in drive and when the car feels like being insufferable, it starts misfiring like crazy and "popping" from under the rear seat, which i believe to be an exhaust leak. What should I look into first ? Fuel pump ? Sparkplugs (which would be weird because it only happens in drive) ? or would it be something way more serious that tells me that I should look into a new car ?

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated. I love this car. I just don't want it to keep rotting in my driveway until I can figure out what causes the problem or have a mechanic charge me a thousand dollars for something I can do at home.

Thank you,

Phil.

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Author:  SpaceFrank [ Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1964 Valiant stalling when given gas in drive.

Poorly rebuilt carburetors are a very common problem. Even if they were "remanufactured" by a name brand entity, there's no guarantee that it was done right. Could be a grab bag of parts from slightly different models of the same base carburetor. Carb body could have a worn out throttle shaft bore, among other things. Did your mechanic friend give any specifics about what was wrong with the carb?

It does make sense for the car to only have trouble in Drive if there's an issue with the carburetor. This is because the engine is under load (feeling resistance from the torque converter in the transmission). It will also be idling lower due to that load, so any problems with fueling will be more likely to stall it.

The popping sound you describe is a likely symptom of a "lean" condition resulting from the engine not getting enough fuel. Does it have this problem when the gas is applied slowly, or only when you press the pedal quickly? If the latter, the most likely problem is the accelerator pump. This is a little diaphragm pump inside the carburetor that shoots a jet of fuel into the carburetor bore when the throttle is applied. When the throttle plate opens quickly, it can take a second for the main fuel jets to respond to the pressure change in the bore, so the accelerator pump shot ensures the engine has enough fuel during this short transition period. You can test operation of the accelerator pump with the engine off by removing the air filter housing, looking down into the carburetor bore, and quickly opening the throttle all the way by hand. You should see a small jet of fuel shooting out. I would try this after running the engine for a short time and then shutting it off, to ensure that there's actually gas in the bowl.

If the engine wants to stall even when you depress the gas pedal slowly, then you probably have an issue with your main fuel circuit. Could be a clog, an undersized jet, or maybe something else. But it could also be a combination of things.

What type of carburetor do you have? This will help us diagnose further. Your car would've come stock with a Carter BBS, but it's also possible someone swapped on a Holley 1920 at some point. (The big red text links to representative photos.)

Author:  wjajr [ Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1964 Valiant stalling when given gas in drive.

Welcome aboard.
Quote:
You see, whenever the car stalls (or tries to stall), it's in drive. It won't stall in neutral or park, even if I give it gas (unless the engine is cold, because no choke, remember ?
)

Often this stalling is caused by a lean condition which can be caused by several problems.

Vacuum leak is the first thing to look for. They can be found anywhere within the intake system such as any uncapped vacuum taps on side of carb, base gasket under carb, intake manifold to head gasket, any cracked or hard vacuum hoses, and power brake diaphragm if equipped. To test for leaks inspect any vacuum tubes for cracks replace as needed, for gasket leaks spray carb cleaner around all intake related gaskets and if the engine changes rpm there is your leak. Check the PCV hose for cracks, and the valve if equipped.

Idle circuit too lean. There is a little screw at base of carburetor that meters the amount of fuel delivered. Default setting for this screw which has a fine point at its end is 1 1/2 turn out from seated. Caution do not forcefully crank down on that screw it will be damaged, just very gently turn it in until it bottoms out and no more, back if off 1 1/2 turns.

Next is to check the valve lash adjustment. Set intake valves at 0.012" and exhaust at 0.020". If the valves are too tight, less than the above clearances that can cause popping out the exhaust, and or back up through the carburetor, and poor engine performance. See here for how to adjust lash 4th post down by slantsix Dan.

A weak spark can cause poor running. Check spark plugs for correct gap, 0.035", and overall condition; re-gap if they are not cruddy, replace with new if carbon fouled.

Incorrectly set ignition point gap and or burnt points will cause drive-ability problems

Failing coil will cause stalling and poor drive-ability out on the road.

And then there is the carb problems Space Frank talked about.

A bad accelerator pump will cause stalling when coming off idle, or accelerating from a stop.

Under "ENGINE" click on "Frequently asked questions" lots of stuff to read, and under "Dan's links" you will find new member tune up questions here

One more thing, is the car's fuel fresh? If not, old fuel will cause stalling, and stuck valves. Old fuel will require draining the tank & perhaps cleaning it, and flushing out all fuel lines, replacing fuel filter, and removing and flushing carburetor's innards.

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