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| Don't mean to beat a dead horse, but.... https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6638 |
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| Author: | '74 Sport [ Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Don't mean to beat a dead horse, but.... |
I know the subject of disc brake swaps has been thoroughly discussed, but I would like to confirm one last time what I have gleaned from all the discussions. I am ready to start putting the front suspension back together on our '76 Duster to '74 Dart Sport swap. I referred back to earlier posts, where DusterIdiot spelled out quite clearly several important part numbers. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find some of the numbers on the parts. D.I., you can chime in any time here. I understand that, with them both being in the '73 - '76 date range, I can use either one's UCA and LCA, just choose which one is in best condition. The upper ball joint and lower ball joint (integral with steering knuckle arm) are the same on both. The Duster spindle (knuckle) will be required for the disc brakes. The strut rods are identical. Have I forgotten anything? I still need someone to get me some dimensions for the sway bar tab and its location on the LCA. If you have anything bad to say about PST suspension products, please let me know now. It looks like I may go with their polygraphite kit. It seems that for quality and price, they're hard to beat. Any comments??? Jerry |
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| Author: | Dennis Weaver [ Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6173 Check out this message thread. That way I don't have to repeat myself. Then make up your own mind. "DW" EDIT: Well, there was more to the above thread, but now it's gone, can't seem to find it anywhere, so I may have to repeat myself, feel free to discuss, '74 Sport... Maybe some PST operatives have infiltrated this site??  
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| Author: | '74 Sport [ Thu Aug 21, 2003 9:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Dennis, I remember this thread, thanks for reminding me. The jury is still out on whether we'll go with rubber or poly. Seems like it's either black or white, no in between, with most people and their opinions on this issue. Comparing handling is a moot point with us; we never got to drive the car with its original components. Anything will be better than it is now. Half of the bushings are gone anyway. Anyone know where can I get reasonably priced MOOG components? Jerry |
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| Author: | Dennis Weaver [ Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I strongly advise that you go with the rubber in at least the upper control arms. The hard "poly" bushings will be in a bind in this spot. If you don't believe me, study the geometry very carefully for yourself. The front and rear bushing centerlines are on the same axis on the control arm itself. Now imagine your front end is all aligned up and where will the cam bolts be? Will they be on the same axis? Not very likely, and the difference is normally taken up by the rubber bushing, which stretches and "gives". Not so with the "poly" (screeech!!! poly wanna cracker?) bushings. Call around your local part stores and see what they carry. "DW" |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Any parts store should be able to get the MOOG stuff for you, including the problem solver UCA bushings. Firmfeel.com also sells MOOG in kits or separately. Lou |
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| Author: | '74 Sport [ Thu Aug 21, 2003 2:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hey Lou, Did you get my e-mail about the spindles having been sent? Be sure to let me know when you get them. Jerry |
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| Author: | 74.swinger [ Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I can set you up with moog stuff. here is the link. I can get anything moog makes. Email me. http://www.bigblockdart.com/cgi-bigbloc ... 1058137915 ________ Yamaha Yl1 ________ Suzuki equator |
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| Author: | Red [ Fri Aug 22, 2003 5:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | disc swap / swaybar tabs |
I'll try to go out and get you some factory swaybar tab measurements this afternoon. As to the poly vs. rubber bushing debate: poly does squeek. As stated elsewhere, everything must be final torqued with car on the ground (weight on suspension) to avoid preloading the bushings. This can be a little tough to do if you don't have a grease pit or a hydraulic lift and your ground clearance is as low as mine, but preloading will only exacerbate squeeking and increase bushing wear. I just got mine close enough to make it driveable and then let the alignment shop do the final dial-in. I only had to go a few blocks on surface streets, so was able to take it "slow-and-easy" getting there. ---Red |
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| Author: | '74 Sport [ Fri Aug 22, 2003 5:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Red, Thanks, I would appreciate the measurements. I'm still looking for a sway bar to install while we rebuild the suspension. Unfortunately, none of the LCAs we have from the Dart and Duster have the tabs. I understand that there is some way of bolting brackets onto the shock mount. That would be my second option, I would prefer welding on the tabs. I have about 10 miles to drive to the front end shop. Most likely, I will put everything together loosely and pull the car up onto a trailer. I certainly don't want any unnecessary squeaking. Sounds like rubber may be the way to go, the more I hear about the poly. Jerry |
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| Author: | Dennis Weaver [ Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I have to jump in here. Actually, preloading bushings is irrelevant to a totally polyurethane equipped frontend. In a standard rubber equipped frontend, suspension motion is taken up (for the most part) by twisting within the soft, springy, resilient, relatively soft bushing. Therefore, tightening everything up at or near ride height can be an issue with standard rubber. A polyurethane bushing works in a totally different manner. The very hard durometer polyurethane slips on the bushing shell. That is why you must slather it with grease. Friction is a function of its operation, which was not the case with the OEM rubber. Since, with the PST "polygraphite" and the like, there is no provision to regrease this bushing once installed, it will eventually dry out, squeak, pop and yes, deteriorate. Before Detroit went to rubber, solid busings were used in a lot of front ends. I believe that they were bronze, and they had provisions for relubing them at regular intervals. The front end in '60's/'70's Chrysler (and other) cars was designed around the rubber bushing. "DW" |
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| Author: | '74 Sport [ Fri Aug 22, 2003 5:15 pm ] |
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Dennis, According to the PST catalog, the concept of impregnating the polyurethane with graphite, hence "polygraphite", is supposed to take care of the lubrication issue. Was your experience based upon using simply polyurethane bushings, or were yours the "polygraphite" type? Do you think it really makes a difference, or is it just a gimmick? jerry |
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| Author: | 74.swinger [ Fri Aug 22, 2003 5:39 pm ] |
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Ok here is the deal on polygraphite bushings. I have them in my swinger. 1. they squeak.they always have and always will squeak 2. dw is correct it makes no difference hwre the suspension is with urethane whe you tighten it like it does with rubber. 3. dont use their strut rod bushings. The sleeve is to long and pushes th lower control arm back. I had to shorten mine. The strut rod and lower control arm still move around in a hard turn. To put it in perspective I dont think I will use them again. The duster im putting together will get cheap rubber till I can afford tubular upper control arms with rod ends solid strut rod bushings and If I can find them solid lower control arm bushings. This will ride rough but It wil not flex in a turn and I want my old a body to really handle. If you want a good daily driver and arent worried about cornering the best you can use rubber and put the money into something else. check out some of this stuff https://id48.securedata.net/cgi-bin/smi ... rchant.mv+ ________ Medical Marijuana Dispensary ________ VAPORIZER MANUFACTURER |
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| Author: | Dennis Weaver [ Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: Dennis,
Yes, I've used "polygraphite", and yes, I believe it's a gimmick.According to the PST catalog, the concept of impregnating the polyurethane with graphite, hence "polygraphite", is supposed to take care of the lubrication issue. Was your experience based upon using simply polyurethane bushings, or were yours the "polygraphite" type? Do you think it really makes a difference, or is it just a gimmick? jerry "DW" |
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| Author: | kesteb [ Sat Aug 23, 2003 10:49 am ] |
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I am sure the the poly stuff works very nicely in suspensions that use shims for adjustment. There would be no binding with them. I used rubber in the UCA and the LCA because chrysler designed the suspension to use the bushings to center and locate those componets. I used poly on the strut rods and in the rear springs. I do not have squeaks. |
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| Author: | Dennis Weaver [ Sat Aug 23, 2003 12:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Well thought out, kesteb. Of course, polyurethane does have it's advantages. I don't abhor the polyurethane bushings nearly as much as I do the HYPE. "DW" "The Anti-Hype" |
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