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HEI upgrade confusion and discussion
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=67659		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  jayman62 [ Tue Mar 05, 2024 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  HEI upgrade confusion and discussion
Apologies for the long post.

I recently performed a 2.25 exhaust upgrade and conversion to a 2-barrel carburetor (BBD) with super six cast iron manifold.

To go along with this I figured I would update the points distributor to an electronic setup. Thinking I would add to the performance gains with the updates. I purchased a setup on Ebay. I also updated my plugs to the NGK plugs endorsed by Slant Six Dan. In my limited knowledge I thought that with these upgrades I would benefit for the “hotter” spark these systems provided.

After reading Dan’s excellent article on HEI conversion (with GM components) I saw he suggests certain coils based on the assumption you would benefit using a coil that takes advantage of a HEI ignition or a least one rated to work with HEI. In fact, I was going to purchase one of these types of coils.

When I emailed the seller about the coil, his kit does not come with one, he said the stock points coil would be fine and that basically there is no performance gain (Horse Power) with an updated electronic ignition system. So being a bit disappointed I figured I’d open the discussion, because reading Dan’s article, it appears he’s under the impression there is a benefit, He goes on to recommend performance wires as well.

So, what’s the deal? I don’t want to get this seller involved in a “he said – he said” situation but I’m curious what you all think. Maybe the system I bought isn't considered HEI? The seller does specify that it is a "Hi-Po Electronic Ignition Kit"

Either way I am glad that I did the upgrade just for the maintenance aspect of having an electronic ignition system. But truth be told I’m still going to carry my old points setup in the trunk.

Thank you


Dan's article: https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15779
Author:  MadScientistMatt [ Tue Mar 05, 2024 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HEI upgrade confusion and discussion
Theoretically a coil matched to the HEI module's dwell time would be ideal assuming the HEI's dwell is hardwired and constant. However, you're only going to need the hottest spark possible if your existing ignition isn't able to reliably light off the air/fuel mixture. So having a matched coil and ignition module can be a major help on engines with forced induction, high compression, or high RPM (although high RPM can have a somewhat different set of demands of a coil and ignition system). Or one that for other reasons has trouble lighting off the mixture.

However, many of the HEI's other benefits - running cooler than a stock Mopar ignition module, eliminating the ballast resistor as a potential failure point - will happen regardless of the coil used.

Do you have a picture of the ignition module used in this kit?
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Tue Mar 05, 2024 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HEI upgrade confusion and discussion
Quote:
I purchased a setup on Ebay
There have, over the years, been a lot of kits that are improperly described, improperly configured, poor quality, or some mix of all three. Sounds like you bouhgt this pile of Chinese distributor-shaped thing (does this look familiar, starting from the second pic?)

"Street-performance advance curve", lolnope. "HiRev 7500" is an example of what is meant when those Chinese trinket factories offer to print whatever brand you want on it); generic module hyped up with a bunch of bogus handwaving about latest and greatest and original Mopar vendor, and wiring harness easily available elsewhere. If so, well…mix of all three.

That seller is a longtime spinner of fairytales. To be completely fair, though, nowhere in that linked auction does he claim it's an HEI system. But he does claim it is a "hi-po" system, which…no. It is not. Only benefit of that pile of stuff is no more changing points. Reliability is a big, flashing red triangle with an exclamation point in the middle of it. You get none of the benefits described in the HEI article.
Quote:
When I emailed the seller about the coil, his kit does not come with one, he said the stock points coil would be fine
With his not-actually-HEI system, it will. With HEI it'll work at least for awhile, in that you'll have sparks. It won't work as well as the coil that's supposed to be used with HEI, and the points-type coil will be under considerably greater stress, and stressed coils eventually go boom.
Quote:
So, what’s the deal? I don’t want to get this seller involved in a “he said – he said” situation but I’m curious what you all think. Maybe the system I bought isn't considered HEI? The seller does specify that it is a "Hi-Po Electronic Ignition Kit"
HEI is not a generic term, it means one thing: the GM system. The parts might or might not all be GM-brand—for example, the coil might be an Echlin, the module might be a Standard, the plug wires might be from Aurora or Magnecor—but it is the system as designed and engineered by GM. That's why the HEI article goes into that amount of parts-selection detail.
Author:  jayman62 [ Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: HEI upgrade confusion and discussion
Quote:
Do you have a picture of the ignition module used in this kit?
Thanks Matt, Looks like Slant Six Dan guessed it correctly, he linked to the one I bought.

Jay
Author:  jayman62 [ Wed Mar 06, 2024 7:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: HEI upgrade confusion and discussion
Dan,

You guessed the one I bought and it is the first link to in your reply. LOL, it was not the second one linked, even I would not buy that one!

I want to point out that I have no ill-will to the seller, I read the description, I read about a few other people who liked the system, and I bought the kit. I have been running a re-manufactured points distributer in the car for over 3 years without ant issues. I hope the distributor his kit supplied is as reliable.

I would have followed your "write up" to the T, but sourcing parts from pick and pulls is difficult in my area, there aren't any I know of, or do I have the time to rummage through one. I wish I did, that's how I spent a lot of time in my youth. I also realize some of the parts can be bought new, but the distributor would have been a pain to find, and I would want that fancy mounting plate for the module and the coil. So I elected for a kit that was all put together.

I had hoped that the system I bought was comparable, I see by your reply I see that it is not. I still feel like, as long as the parts are reliable, I am one better over using the points system.

That being said i will pick up a coil rated for electronic ignition, gap my plugs to .045, (.040 now) and forgo 120$ for wires, I'm trying to do this on a budget and they seem over-kill for my system.

I've run the electronic system now for a couple of weeks and so-far-so-good, it runs well, idles great, and overall I'm happy.

I am guilty of reading your excellent write up and assuming the one I bought was the same, so I take all the blame.

Thanks,

Jay
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HEI upgrade confusion and discussion
Quote:
I have no ill-will to the seller
I might not, either, if he would just describe his stuff honestly, without makin' stuff up to make it sound different and better and more special and harder to find (etc) than it really is.

The line between salesmanship and lying isn't always bright or sharp, but it's plenty visible enough by thoughtful, forthright, ethical, upstanding sellers.

For decades I've made much/most of my living selling car parts. I've managed to do pretty well for myself and my family while staying well on the good side of the line, and that's never been difficult. There's no good reason for it to be otherwise for anyone else. That is why I don't respect those who choose to step across and live on the other side of the line.
Author:  jayman62 [ Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HEI upgrade confusion and discussion
Quote:

I might not, either, if he would just describe his stuff honestly, without makin' stuff up to make it sound different and better and more special and harder to find (etc) than it really is.
Yes, you're right the description could be better for us neophytes. Live and learn, I think I'll grab the parts from your list as time goes on.

Thanks,

Jay
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