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mystery rattle noise
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Author:  Thebearded1 [ Fri Jun 21, 2024 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  mystery rattle noise
225 stock except it has a super six intake and Stromberg ww3 carb uknown mileage

I went to take the car out this morning and it was idling rough, thought it might have just been not fully warmed up yet but thought I heard a noise while driving so I came back home and it almost sounds like an exhaust leak. I used a remeflex gasket and didn't notice any soot and couldn't find a leak. I thought well let me check the valve lash and when I started the engine with the valve cover off I heard this weird clanging/clinking sound near cylinder 1. I checked all the clearances and they were good. All the rockers were getting oil and all the pushrods had oil running down them. All pushrods appeared to be turning except for exhaust on cyl 1. I was able to spin the pushrod when the engine was off and that valve was closed. I loosened the adjuster and pulled out the pushrods, it was not bent and neither end looked marked up any more than suspected for regular wear. I put it back in and reset the lash and used a long screw driver as a stethoscope to try and find out where the sound was coming from and no luck. Checked the rocker shaft, side of the block, oil pan, fuel pump, oil pump, water pump alternator, each intake and exhaust runner and the timing cover. Couldn't detect the sound anywhere. It sounds loudest when I am over top of the valve train and sounds like it is down in the block. I pulled the dipstick to see if that was the culprit and no luck. You can't hear it at 750 rpms but you can hear it when I idle it down in the video at about 25 seconds. Any ideas what this could be???

https://youtu.be/dhNfLVUeDHU

Side question: I noticed all of the valve seals on my exhaust valves were at the top of the valve stems near the valve spring retainer and all of the intake valve seals were down on the head. Is this what happens when they go bad? Obviously they aren't doing there job but just weird they were all up.

A friend thinks it could be a loose pulley or gear so i'm going to pull the timing chain cover once the car cools down this evening. I did replace the timing chain and gears this March but have driven the car a ton since then with no issues. I have to pull the radiator in my roadster to be able to pull the crank pulley so that's why I have to wait.

Any help is greatly appreciated!
Author:  Badvert65 [ Fri Jun 21, 2024 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: mystery rattle noise
Is there still a flap in the exhaust manifold? It almost sounds like it is rattling around. That or the rotor is clipping something in the distributor cab (but not quite the right sound for that).
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Jun 21, 2024 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: mystery rattle noise
This does not sound like a noise internal to the engine. I agree with the idea to check for a rattling manifold heat control valve or something else attached to the engine. I'd even spray plain water over the belts to see if the noise changes or goes away—some kinds of belt noise clear up at higher RPMs (which means, by the same token, they can appear only at low RPMs). Your rocker arms appear dry at their tips, which should not be the case; you should have a dribble of oil out the hole at the tip of each one.
Author:  Thebearded1 [ Fri Jun 21, 2024 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: mystery rattle noise
Quote:
Is there still a flap in the exhaust manifold? It almost sounds like it is rattling around. That or the rotor is clipping something in the distributor cab (but not quite the right sound for that).
I started it and held the flapper in multiple different positions but that didn't change or stop the sound. I pulled the distributor cap off and didn't see any scoring inside from the rotor hitting anything. I agree sounds more like metal rattling
Quote:
This does not sound like a noise internal to the engine. I agree with the idea to check for a rattling manifold heat control valve or something else attached to the engine. I'd even spray plain water over the belts to see if the noise changes or goes away—some kinds of belt noise clear up at higher RPMs (which means, by the same token, they can appear only at low RPMs). Your rocker arms appear dry at their tips, which should not be the case; you should have a dribble of oil out the hole at the tip of each one.
I sprayed the belt with water and no change in engine noise. Even took the belt off for a quick run and it still made the noise. Motor mounts are tight, wasn't my catch can, coil, or metal fuel filter hitting anything. Exhaust valve wasn't flapping, held my brake line that wasn't rattling, fuel pump isn't loose, oil pump isn't loose, distributor isn't loose, air cleaner is tight. Can't think of what else to check. I can definitely hear the sound the loudest when over top of the valves of cylinder 1.

As for the oil are you referring to the hole in the end near the valve spring? I definitely have oil coming out the center hole in the split of the rocker flowing to the pushrods and a small dribble coming out of the hole at the valve spring end of the rocker. I just fired it back up and checked.
Author:  Thebearded1 [ Fri Jun 21, 2024 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: mystery rattle noise
I checked the flex plate bolts too. Two I couldn't tighten anymore, the other two I was able to tighten a slight bit more but the sound still persists and hasn't changed.
Author:  Badvert65 [ Fri Jun 21, 2024 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: mystery rattle noise
Is there any chance it is coming from the timing cover? Chain or a broken oil slinger (really reaching there). Pull the dip stick out and see if the sound goes away, Possibly the dipstick rattling? This is a real stumper.
Author:  slantzilla [ Fri Jun 21, 2024 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: mystery rattle noise
Fuel pump lobe on the cam going flat? Broken spring in the pump?
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Sat Jun 22, 2024 3:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: mystery rattle noise
Do you have bolts in the damper (like would be used to attach a PS pulley)? I have seen those bolts be too long and rub the timing cover.
Author:  Thebearded1 [ Sat Jun 22, 2024 6:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: mystery rattle noise
Thanks everyone for all the help and responses! Still stumped on this one and taking a break from the car today and will drive back into it tomorrow.
Quote:
Is there any chance it is coming from the timing cover? Chain or a broken oil slinger (really reaching there). Pull the dip stick out and see if the sound goes away, Possibly the dipstick rattling? This is a real stumper.
Tomorrow i'm going to drain and remove the radiator and pull the timing cover to check everything in there. I already checked the dipstick by removing it and that wasn't it unfortunately. It is a frustrating one for sure. Since I haven't figured out what it is I canceled on racing the car at Mason Dixon this weekend.
Quote:
Fuel pump lobe on the cam going flat? Broken spring in the pump?
Still pumping fuel regularly I also used a screwdriver on the pump as a stethoscope and couldn't hear the noise there. Can't hear the noise to well when low and next to the pump, I hear it better when over top of the head.
Quote:
Do you have bolts in the damper (like would be used to attach a PS pulley)? I have seen those bolts be too long and rub the timing cover.
Not anymore I took off that pulley when I changed the timing set this last March since the pulley wasn't being used.
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Sat Jun 22, 2024 7:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: mystery rattle noise
It is 95-100 here today anyway! If you are coming up to race let us know!
Author:  ProCycle [ Sat Jun 22, 2024 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: mystery rattle noise
Quote:
...pushrods appeared to be turning except for exhaust on cyl 1....
Indication of a problem with that lifter?
Author:  ceej [ Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: mystery rattle noise
Torque converter bolts?

CJ
Author:  Greg Ondayko [ Sat Jun 22, 2024 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: mystery rattle noise
I did not read through everyone's suggestions, but I had a similar malady happen to me this evening when driving home from a buddy's retirement party in my '62 Valiant.

Noticed a belt squealing beginning on startup once or twice today - I did not think much of it.

About a mile from the house in the 95° heat at a traiffic light I heard a metered clangingg. oh no what the &#@#* is that?

Oil pressure=Good.
I thought it may have been the flywheel dust shield that came loose... - No was not that.

The harmonic balancer/damper is coming apart. On the '60-'62 Valiant/Lancers there is no aluminum spacer to push the fan forward towards the radiator - the engine compart is short enough that it does not need it.

There typically is about 1/4" between the fan and the crank pulley/dampener - Ton any more on my car; the outer ring has slipped forward to the point where it is now clanging with the fan.

Maybe check that on your car if you are running a mechanical nonelectric fan?



Time to send my parts to damper dudes for a rebuild.
Cheers!

Greg
Author:  Thebearded1 [ Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: mystery rattle noise
Quote:
It is 95-100 here today anyway! If you are coming up to race let us know!
Didn't make it up there, I didn't want to stress the car with this unknown sound and would have been bummed being there and not running my car.
Quote:
Quote:
...pushrods appeared to be turning except for exhaust on cyl 1....
Indication of a problem with that lifter?
Maybe, would a magnet be strong enough to pull out the lifter with the head still on?
Quote:
Torque converter bolts?

CJ
I checked those I was able to tighten two slightly but that didn't change the noise
Quote:
I did not read through everyone's suggestions, but I had a similar malady happen to me this evening when driving home from a buddy's retirement party in my '62 Valiant.

....

Greg
I'm using an electrical fan and I grabbed the outer ring of the balancer and it didn't move at all.


I feel like I've checked everything attached to the motor so I'm worried it is something deeper. I'm going to fish around on top of the lifters with a magnet to see if I find any surprises then I will try the wiggle test on the crank to see how much the dist rotor moves then pull the timing cover. Maybe the oil slinger disc slipped out of place or broke?
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Sun Jun 23, 2024 4:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: mystery rattle noise
I'd pull the fuel pump before the timing cover, and check that. Yes with the droll tube head you should be able to work the lifter up and and out.
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