Slant Six Forum :: Assessing a disassembled Slant 6 for what it may need

OK....looking at your Facebook vids.....I see a ".040" on one of the pistons. That suggests to me that the short block has been rebuilt. The piston tops are also pretty clean for a just-opened engine, unless you did some cleanup before the vid. How much ridge at the tops of the bores? We can see that the numbers are still in place on the right front of the deck surface, so that tells us it hasn't been decked much, if any.
Take a look at the lifter wear faces.....how much wear or "dish"? Get some good light on the cam lobes.....see if it might be a new cam by the wear pattern on the lobes.

There'll be others better versed with answering your questions pretty soon.

Roger

I've been at this for a while but like you I haven't been in deep for a while. I built a performance motor about 20 years ago and it's been great. I'm about to build another one. I know things have changed and vendors come and go. I"m gonna need a cam at least once the engine is assessed and I know how much it'll need to be bored. We'll see about the crank and rods.

Howdy, I haven't replied to anything for a while. Why not?

Did you check valve clearance/timing or ignition timing prior to tearing the engine down? If it was blowing fuel out of the carburetor, I'd look for a clearance or timing problem. The float might sink, but pumping fuel out the top says something different to me. Possible, but...
If there is oil in the lifter cup where the push rod sits, if pulled without a quick, twisting sideways motion, it'll come right out when you pull the push rod. There is no oil passage beneath the lifter cup, so it's suctioned to the push rod.
A 73 is a solid lifter cam. There are adjusters to set the lash. Solid push rods, so no way to pump hydraulic lifters. Hopefully you didn't pick up one of "those" disasters. (Hydraulic Slants pump from the top, so valve-train parts aren't interchangeable.) If somebody went in to rebuild it with 40 over pistons, they may have botched the cam timing too. Your replacing the cam, so degree the cam in. Lots of parts these days have "errors." You might get away with timing by the dots, but not always.

It'd be a good idea to check the timing chain, and the condition of the distributor/drive gear. When the oil pump, cam and distributor have a melt down, all sorts of nasty things happen. If there is a problem with any one of the gears, replace all. Leaving something with a bad wear pattern will tear up the others in short order. Doc has a bit about lapping the cam to the oil pump. Oil pump drive gear failures. Look it up.

Measure before you cut the head/deck. You never know until you measure the chamber and deck volume. If you haven't ported a slant six, read the articles. Water lurks close in some places. Aftermarket heads do not exist, so don't make the mistake of grinding into a water passage. And do not install oversize valve seats that require cutting the head. That water is "VERY" close. Any valve size that won't mask on the bore or interfere with the deck can be fit to a standard seat.

Enjoy the journey!

Quote:

Howdy, I haven't replied to anything for a while. Why not?

As for the head and deck, I'm not planning to mill anything unless its an absolute necessity.

Quote:

Howdy, I haven't replied to anything for a while. Why not?

As for the head and deck, I'm not planning to mill anything unless its an absolute necessity.

In my opinion milling the deck and/or head is a necessity. Just about any time you change the cam you lose low end cylinder pressure. The slant starts out with minimal CR to start with. Normally no higher than 8-1 (measured). You already have the engine apart, so go for some more compression (minimum of 8,5-1).
PS: the engine originally had a steel shim head gasket at about .022 thick. Aftermarket gaskets are thicker at about .040. so that would lower the CR even more if no milling is done.

Author:	AbodyHoarder [ Fri Aug 30, 2024 3:35 am ]
Post subject:	Assessing a disassembled Slant 6 for what it may need
Hello. First time poster here. I am a relatively new member. Not entirely new to the slant 6, but a bit more than 40 years removed from the last one I had at 16 and had no idea what I was doing back then. Not much has changed there, lol. Anyway, I own three A-bodies and have had two of them for several years. A 1967 Barracuda Fastback Formula S 383 4-speed, a '71 Duster 340 4-speed, and a recently acquired 1973 Valiant more door, powered by a 225 leaning tower of power with a 904 and 7.25" rear end. I bought the Valiant after searching for a slant 6 car that I could daily drive while the BB and SB Mopars sit in the barn a good chunk of the year because Michigan, lol. Unfortunately I was not able to drive the car, or even hear it run for more than a few seconds, due to the single-barrel carb literally spitting fuel up out of the air cleaner when we tried to start it. I was not looking for a project, but a project is what it has turned into full-force. My plan for this car has evolved and expanded pretty much from the get-go. Rather than rebuild or replace the 1bbl, my genius idea was to re-appropriate a Holley Sniper 2 EFI system that I originally bought for the Duster. I ordered a 4-barrel intake and some miscellaneous other stuff I'd need to adapt the Sniper to the Valiant and one thing lead to another, and the scope has just mushroomed from there. Setting aside all of the brake, suspension, and steering upgrades I intend to do, and focusing on where I am at with the engine is what prompted this request for feedback/opinions/advice. After having torn down the front and bottom of the engine to replace the water pump, timing set, oil pump, etc., I decided to pull the cylinder head and at least get a peek inside and do the head gasket while I have it all apart. So this morning the head came off and, to my ignorant eyes, everything looked in pretty good order. However, I was a bit surprised to see that almost all of the lifters had come completely up and out of their bores during the removal. Not even sure I understand how that might happen, but the upshot is that now I am wondering if I should just replace them all, including new pushrods, and perhaps the cam while I am in there. I'm 99% sure I got them all back into the places they came from, but better safe than sorry is what I am thinking. I am a competent mechanic and have a ton of experience wrenching on the various systems of various cars, but for whatever reason have limited experience with doing internal engine work. What I am hoping for with this is to have someone who knows what they are looking at get their eyes on what I found and give me some guidance. The goal here is to never have to tear it down to this level again and have it hold up to the new 4 barrel fuel/air delivery. I don't want to replace parts just to replace them, but why stop now, right? The easiest way for you to see what I am seeing is by looking at a public post on my Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/X1rf3ShBehqz8ctf/ In lieu of that, I could upload the videos to YouTube or send them via email or other conduit if that helps. Thanks in advance to anyone willing to do a little hand-holding with a (not quite, but almost) NOOB.

Author:	Dart270 [ Fri Aug 30, 2024 4:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Assessing a disassembled Slant 6 for what it may need
Thanks for the rundown. Sounds like a cool project. Contemplating... Lou

Author:	GTS225 [ Fri Aug 30, 2024 4:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Assessing a disassembled Slant 6 for what it may need
OK....looking at your Facebook vids.....I see a ".040" on one of the pistons. That suggests to me that the short block has been rebuilt. The piston tops are also pretty clean for a just-opened engine, unless you did some cleanup before the vid. How much ridge at the tops of the bores? We can see that the numbers are still in place on the right front of the deck surface, so that tells us it hasn't been decked much, if any. Take a look at the lifter wear faces.....how much wear or "dish"? Get some good light on the cam lobes.....see if it might be a new cam by the wear pattern on the lobes. There'll be others better versed with answering your questions pretty soon. Roger

Author:	AbodyHoarder [ Fri Aug 30, 2024 4:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Assessing a disassembled Slant 6 for what it may need
Quote: OK....looking at your Facebook vids.....I see a ".040" on one of the pistons. That suggests to me that the short block has been rebuilt. The piston tops are also pretty clean for a just-opened engine, unless you did some cleanup before the vid. How much ridge at the tops of the bores? We can see that the numbers are still in place on the right front of the deck surface, so that tells us it hasn't been decked much, if any. Take a look at the lifter wear faces.....how much wear or "dish"? Get some good light on the cam lobes.....see if it might be a new cam by the wear pattern on the lobes. There'll be others better versed with answering your questions pretty soon. Roger Thanks Roger. I appreciate the feedback. The only clean up I did was to wipe away the stray coolant and just a cursory clean up the tops of the pistons and the bores. All done with a microfiber cloth and nothing else. There are actually two vids in the post that show before and after cleanup. The dislodged lifters really threw me for a bit of a loop, but other than that everything seemed in order to my untrained eyes. The more I think about this (and how committed I already have been to this overhaul) a new cam and lifter set might be the way to go, if only for peace of mind. Something amenable to the EFI if that makes sense, even better. As I mentioned, I am green as hell when it comes to valve trains in general, so I would be super open to recommendations on what type of cam would be a smart choice. All I have looked at so far are a couple on Summit: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-k64-241-4 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-k64-247-4

Author:	Charrlie_S [ Fri Aug 30, 2024 5:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Assessing a disassembled Slant 6 for what it may need
Just in case no one else mentions it, I am an advocate of increasing the compression ratio of any slant that is apart for internal engine work. Within limits there is no downside to doing this. It will help with both power, and fuel economy. How much to increase depends on the goals for the vehicle, and the cam. You should measure the current CR, and then figure what needs to be done to get to the number you want. Either milling the head, or decking the block or both. The original CR of the slant six was 8.2 or 8.4 to 1, depending on the "book". I have never measured a slant six that was more than 8.0 to 1

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Author:	hyper_pak [ Fri Aug 30, 2024 6:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Assessing a disassembled Slant 6 for what it may need
Welcome to the Forum! If you are not sure on the lifters, I would recommend resurfacing your by Oregon Cams. New parts are suspect now a days. Push rods and rockers after inspection should be fine. I agree with Charrlie, a little head mill will help, after you calculate what you want.

Author:	volaredon [ Fri Aug 30, 2024 7:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Assessing a disassembled Slant 6 for what it may need
My next to last/6 came to me in pieces Literal basket case from a swap meet, originally bought to get the super 6 manifold he had for sale/ and had to take his whole pile of (well most of,) the rest of a /6, to get the manifold. "All or nothing" deal. Had to source a set of rods and various internal engine hardware. Would have had to replace the original pistons anyway even if they had been included since I ended up having to bore it out to round out cylinders and take out a little taper anyway... It's a good running engine now. Thanks "team green" for the deal on a set of NOS rods, and to Zilla for the rest of the missing parts... Mainly about a 1/2 of a set of each head bolts and main bearing bolts... Another one 30 years before, came out of a barn find whose owner pulled it out for a big block transplant and cast aside. Went thru machine shop and did the whole boogie rebuild only to find antifreeze seeping from a crack on the manifold side of the block about 1-1/2" above the oil pan rail. That car ended up totalled about 700 miles later, I salvaged the head which was put on dads work car of the day and sent that cracked 700 mile, freshly rebuilt short block to the junkyard with the wrecked body..... Happened to have been a 63 block, 73 crank, in an F body

Author:	Rick Covalt [ Fri Aug 30, 2024 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Assessing a disassembled Slant 6 for what it may need
When you are in this far, I would definitely do some simple pocket porting and a valve job/ touch up. Mill the head to bump compression. And if you don't know what for cam is in it, I would suggest a regrind of yours to keep the oil pump and cam gears happy. Obviously I would pull the oil pimp and check the gears first. If they look good, keep them matched up if you can. One more opinion!

Author:	Mike Andreas [ Sat Sep 14, 2024 5:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Assessing a disassembled Slant 6 for what it may need
I've been at this for a while but like you I haven't been in deep for a while. I built a performance motor about 20 years ago and it's been great. I'm about to build another one. I know things have changed and vendors come and go. I"m gonna need a cam at least once the engine is assessed and I know how much it'll need to be bored. We'll see about the crank and rods.

Author:	AbodyHoarder [ Mon Sep 16, 2024 4:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Assessing a disassembled Slant 6 for what it may need
Quote: I've been at this for a while but like you I haven't been in deep for a while. I built a performance motor about 20 years ago and it's been great. I'm about to build another one. I know things have changed and vendors come and go. I"m gonna need a cam at least once the engine is assessed and I know how much it'll need to be bored. We'll see about the crank and rods. I've been taking my time and having fun with it. I ended up going with a Comp Cams camshaft and lifter kit from Summit. It has 264/264 duration and 0.440 lift. Seems to be the one most similar to the Direct Connection performance replacement cams that I have not been able to find available anywhere. I'm 99% complete with all the removals and looking forward to the rebuild.

Author:	ceej [ Mon Sep 16, 2024 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Assessing a disassembled Slant 6 for what it may need
Howdy, I haven't replied to anything for a while. Why not? Did you check valve clearance/timing or ignition timing prior to tearing the engine down? If it was blowing fuel out of the carburetor, I'd look for a clearance or timing problem. The float might sink, but pumping fuel out the top says something different to me. Possible, but... If there is oil in the lifter cup where the push rod sits, if pulled without a quick, twisting sideways motion, it'll come right out when you pull the push rod. There is no oil passage beneath the lifter cup, so it's suctioned to the push rod. A 73 is a solid lifter cam. There are adjusters to set the lash. Solid push rods, so no way to pump hydraulic lifters. Hopefully you didn't pick up one of "those" disasters. (Hydraulic Slants pump from the top, so valve-train parts aren't interchangeable.) If somebody went in to rebuild it with 40 over pistons, they may have botched the cam timing too. Your replacing the cam, so degree the cam in. Lots of parts these days have "errors." You might get away with timing by the dots, but not always. It'd be a good idea to check the timing chain, and the condition of the distributor/drive gear. When the oil pump, cam and distributor have a melt down, all sorts of nasty things happen. If there is a problem with any one of the gears, replace all. Leaving something with a bad wear pattern will tear up the others in short order. Doc has a bit about lapping the cam to the oil pump. Oil pump drive gear failures. Look it up. Measure before you cut the head/deck. You never know until you measure the chamber and deck volume. If you haven't ported a slant six, read the articles. Water lurks close in some places. Aftermarket heads do not exist, so don't make the mistake of grinding into a water passage. And do not install oversize valve seats that require cutting the head. That water is "VERY" close. Any valve size that won't mask on the bore or interfere with the deck can be fit to a standard seat. Enjoy the journey! CJ

Author:	AbodyHoarder [ Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Assessing a disassembled Slant 6 for what it may need
Quote: Howdy, I haven't replied to anything for a while. Why not? Did you check valve clearance/timing or ignition timing prior to tearing the engine down? If it was blowing fuel out of the carburetor, I'd look for a clearance or timing problem. The float might sink, but pumping fuel out the top says something different to me. Possible, but... If there is oil in the lifter cup where the push rod sits, if pulled without a quick, twisting sideways motion, it'll come right out when you pull the push rod. There is no oil passage beneath the lifter cup, so it's suctioned to the push rod. A 73 is a solid lifter cam. There are adjusters to set the lash. Solid push rods, so no way to pump hydraulic lifters. Hopefully you didn't pick up one of "those" disasters. (Hydraulic Slants pump from the top, so valve-train parts aren't interchangeable.) If somebody went in to rebuild it with 40 over pistons, they may have botched the cam timing too. Your replacing the cam, so degree the cam in. Lots of parts these days have "errors." You might get away with timing by the dots, but not always. It'd be a good idea to check the timing chain, and the condition of the distributor/drive gear. When the oil pump, cam and distributor have a melt down, all sorts of nasty things happen. If there is a problem with any one of the gears, replace all. Leaving something with a bad wear pattern will tear up the others in short order. Doc has a bit about lapping the cam to the oil pump. Oil pump drive gear failures. Look it up. Measure before you cut the head/deck. You never know until you measure the chamber and deck volume. If you haven't ported a slant six, read the articles. Water lurks close in some places. Aftermarket heads do not exist, so don't make the mistake of grinding into a water passage. And do not install oversize valve seats that require cutting the head. That water is "VERY" close. Any valve size that won't mask on the bore or interfere with the deck can be fit to a standard seat. Enjoy the journey! CJ Wow thanks for all the helpful info. I hope I haven't gotten in over my head, lol (pun intended). No I did not check the valve or ignition timing before pulling it all apart, mainly because I didn't think to do so and because I was planning to replace all of those components anyway. The head is currently at the machine shop being evaluated so no diagnosis on it's condition yet. I am about to remove the timing gears/chain and the camshaft. The distributor and oil pump have been out for a while now. Nothing looks damaged so far, at least to the untrained eye. As for the head and deck, I'm not planning to mill anything unless its an absolute necessity. Once I have everything out and ready to go back together, I may hit you up for more info if you don't mind. I am also working my way through a book I bought on slant six engines, so I won't put anything back together until I am relatively sure I have as much info and understanding as I can have. Thanks again. My email is dennisjjackson@hotmail.com in case you might have any other thoughts you might want to share. The email may be easier. I love that this forum exists, but I must say that it's "functionality" is not quite what I am used to over at For A Bodies Only. And on that note and as a reply to all the others who have commented, thank you all very much for the replies and feedback. I've found that this forum doesn't seem to have some of the functionality that I'm used to, such as the ability to "like" or "say thanks" to individual comments and it seems like the only way to reply to a comment is to quote it? Idk, I'm a noob set in his ways. Anyway, anyone else who would not mind chiming in via the email address above, that would be awesome. THANKS AGAIN to all. Your wisdom and willingness to help the new guy is much appreciated.

Author:	Charrlie_S [ Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Assessing a disassembled Slant 6 for what it may need
Quote: Quote: Howdy, I haven't replied to anything for a while. Why not? Did you check valve clearance/timing or ignition timing prior to tearing the engine down? If it was blowing fuel out of the carburetor, I'd look for a clearance or timing problem. The float might sink, but pumping fuel out the top says something different to me. Possible, but... If there is oil in the lifter cup where the push rod sits, if pulled without a quick, twisting sideways motion, it'll come right out when you pull the push rod. There is no oil passage beneath the lifter cup, so it's suctioned to the push rod. A 73 is a solid lifter cam. There are adjusters to set the lash. Solid push rods, so no way to pump hydraulic lifters. Hopefully you didn't pick up one of "those" disasters. (Hydraulic Slants pump from the top, so valve-train parts aren't interchangeable.) If somebody went in to rebuild it with 40 over pistons, they may have botched the cam timing too. Your replacing the cam, so degree the cam in. Lots of parts these days have "errors." You might get away with timing by the dots, but not always. It'd be a good idea to check the timing chain, and the condition of the distributor/drive gear. When the oil pump, cam and distributor have a melt down, all sorts of nasty things happen. If there is a problem with any one of the gears, replace all. Leaving something with a bad wear pattern will tear up the others in short order. Doc has a bit about lapping the cam to the oil pump. Oil pump drive gear failures. Look it up. Measure before you cut the head/deck. You never know until you measure the chamber and deck volume. If you haven't ported a slant six, read the articles. Water lurks close in some places. Aftermarket heads do not exist, so don't make the mistake of grinding into a water passage. And do not install oversize valve seats that require cutting the head. That water is "VERY" close. Any valve size that won't mask on the bore or interfere with the deck can be fit to a standard seat. Enjoy the journey! CJ As for the head and deck, I'm not planning to mill anything unless its an absolute necessity. In my opinion milling the deck and/or head is a necessity. Just about any time you change the cam you lose low end cylinder pressure. The slant starts out with minimal CR to start with. Normally no higher than 8-1 (measured). You already have the engine apart, so go for some more compression (minimum of 8,5-1). PS: the engine originally had a steel shim head gasket at about .022 thick. Aftermarket gaskets are thicker at about .040. so that would lower the CR even more if no milling is done.

Author:	AbodyHoarder [ Tue Sep 17, 2024 3:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Assessing a disassembled Slant 6 for what it may need
Quote: Quote: Quote: Howdy, I haven't replied to anything for a while. Why not? Did you check valve clearance/timing or ignition timing prior to tearing the engine down? If it was blowing fuel out of the carburetor, I'd look for a clearance or timing problem. The float might sink, but pumping fuel out the top says something different to me. Possible, but... If there is oil in the lifter cup where the push rod sits, if pulled without a quick, twisting sideways motion, it'll come right out when you pull the push rod. There is no oil passage beneath the lifter cup, so it's suctioned to the push rod. A 73 is a solid lifter cam. There are adjusters to set the lash. Solid push rods, so no way to pump hydraulic lifters. Hopefully you didn't pick up one of "those" disasters. (Hydraulic Slants pump from the top, so valve-train parts aren't interchangeable.) If somebody went in to rebuild it with 40 over pistons, they may have botched the cam timing too. Your replacing the cam, so degree the cam in. Lots of parts these days have "errors." You might get away with timing by the dots, but not always. It'd be a good idea to check the timing chain, and the condition of the distributor/drive gear. When the oil pump, cam and distributor have a melt down, all sorts of nasty things happen. If there is a problem with any one of the gears, replace all. Leaving something with a bad wear pattern will tear up the others in short order. Doc has a bit about lapping the cam to the oil pump. Oil pump drive gear failures. Look it up. Measure before you cut the head/deck. You never know until you measure the chamber and deck volume. If you haven't ported a slant six, read the articles. Water lurks close in some places. Aftermarket heads do not exist, so don't make the mistake of grinding into a water passage. And do not install oversize valve seats that require cutting the head. That water is "VERY" close. Any valve size that won't mask on the bore or interfere with the deck can be fit to a standard seat. Enjoy the journey! CJ As for the head and deck, I'm not planning to mill anything unless its an absolute necessity. In my opinion milling the deck and/or head is a necessity. Just about any time you change the cam you lose low end cylinder pressure. The slant starts out with minimal CR to start with. Normally no higher than 8-1 (measured). You already have the engine apart, so go for some more compression (minimum of 8,5-1). PS: the engine originally had a steel shim head gasket at about .022 thick. Aftermarket gaskets are thicker at about .040. so that would lower the CR even more if no milling is done. Thanks. Good to know. I will look at possibly milling the head. I'd rather not pull the block out of the car at this point if I can get away with it. Obviously I am not well versed in calculating what is needed or how much is too much, and I have no idea how experienced the machine shop guy is either, so I am a little gun shy. I plan to connect with the machine shop this morning in hopes they have assessed the head for current condition and next steps. They have had it for well over a week now and I've heard crickets to this point, but again, no prior relationship or knowledge of who I am dealing with. Fingers crossed, I guess. I'm also going to be traveling for the next week and a half beginning tomorrow, so I may need to put off any decision making for a bit. Thanks again, I really do appreciate all of the feedback I've gotten.

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Author:	AbodyHoarder [ Tue Sep 17, 2024 6:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Assessing a disassembled Slant 6 for what it may need
Not that I think it will change much of anything, but I wanted to share some information that has come to light since my original post and see if anyone has thoughts. I purchased the "Chrysler Slant Six Engines" book by Doug Dutra and attempted to decipher what I actually have using the casting and stamping numbers on the block. As even the book itself states, these IDs can be nebulous at best, but here is what I think I know based on the casting number 530-10 and the stamping 8 W 225 3937: 1. This block is not original to my 1973 Valiant, as the "8" would indicate it is a 1978 MY block. 2. It is was made at the Windsor Plant. 3. Here's where I think I must have something wrong. To the best of my ability, I read the last 4 digits as "3937". The first digit in that sequence of four was not stamped well, but I'm almost positive it is a 3. Using the 10,000 day calendar, that translates to a build date of Monday, May 8, 1972, which makes no sense whatsoever for a couple of reasons. It is supposedly a '78 block, and if it were original, May of '72 is way too early for a '73. If I change the 3 to 5, which was my next best guess, that translates to Saturday, October 29, 1977, which makes way more sense, but did they build engines on Saturday? 4. The "-10" of the casting number indicates that it is a "desirable" BH block. 5. I have the "extra" ribs on the left side of the block ahead of and behind the 5 freeze plugs, which also supposedly indicates a BH block. The only thing that confuses me a bit is whether BH blocks had forged or cast cranks. All info seems to point to cast, but why would the BH then be desirable over one with a forged crank? Sorry if that is a dumb thing to ask. Another dumb thing to ask...does any of the above change anything vis-a-vis the cam choice I made and/or the proper way to try to gain some compression ratio through milling the head and/or deck? Thanks again to all who are to willing to suffer my ignorance and share their wisdom.