I notice that the question was about "rebuilding" the engine, but the responses kept mentioning "building". Those of us in the non-speed-demon mode appear to be in the minority.
He just wants a car which runs well, not a street racer.
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| 170 Street build up questions https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7153 |
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| Author: | crosleykook [ Thu Oct 09, 2003 3:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 170 Street build up questions |
I'm looking to rebuild my very tired '62 170. Any advice on the best rebuild kit to go with on this? There seem to be a lot of cam choices. What is the best for all-around street use in a 170? I've been reading some of the articles on the site, and it sounds like a 276-268-44 duration, .430 lift cam might be a good choice. I've also heard that there was a Mopar marine cam that was a good all-around stick. Any thoughts? I'm not looking to street race-- I just want a solid road toad for daily use and plenty of road trips. thanks for any advice! tim |
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| Author: | Charrlie_S [ Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:27 am ] |
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Tim, Unless you have a particular reason for using the 170, I reccommend using the 225, for what you want do do. To start with, more cubes, more power. The 170 was rated at 101hp, and the 225 at 148hp. Doing the 170, has some unique problems. The engine is a zero deck motor (pistons come to the top of the bore), so you have to make sure the valves don't hit the pistons, when installing a bigger cam, especally if the head is milled, to increase compression. Also if you want headers, they are not available for the 170, headers for the 225 need to be modified to fit. If a lot of compression is desired, the 170 deck cannot be cut, and the head can be cut about 100 thousand. This will give a CR of about 9.5 to 10.5 to one. The 225 block deck can be cut in the area of about .100 and the head also .100. Don't know where this comes out, but would guess, about 12 or 13 to one. At that point you get in valve clearance issues on the 225. All this being said, I run the 170 engine. Just wanted to make sure you were aware of the differences, a lot of of people do not know about these issues. I found out the hard way. |
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| Author: | Doc [ Fri Oct 10, 2003 9:06 am ] |
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I have also built a few 170 (and 198s) over the years, in general, the only reasons I see to build a 170 is if you want a high reving Slant or you need the best MPG you can get. For a nice, responsive, easy to build combination, with lots of low RPM torque, a 225 is the way to go. (Finding a replacement 225 should be pretty easy) DD |
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| Author: | Guest [ Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:55 am ] |
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I'd like to stick with the 170 for two reasons: 1) I think this is the car's original motor, and it would be nice to stick with that. 2) I was very satisfied with the performance of this motor in the car when it was in better shape. The car had plenty of pep and got close to 20 mpg on the highway-- not bad for a 40 year old station wagon. What I am looking to build is an efficient, reasonably bullet-proof motor. To that end, I'm looking for advice on where to make upgrades that will make a difference in long-term reliability, or where to stay stock. thanks! |
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| Author: | Doc [ Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:11 am ] |
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OK, that is reason enough for me but realize that the cost is the same to build either size engine. The build-up process is the same so spend some time reviewing the HRM "Slantsickness" article. http://www.slantsix.org/articles/hrm-sl ... ckness.htm The only thing I would do different is to keep the head porting to a minimum and use the stock valve size. Also keep the head / block milling to .060 or less. Be real careful on cam selection, if you were pleased with the original performance level of your 170, you may want to stick with that factory cam. A performance cam in a 170 tends to kill-off low rpm throttle responce on an engine which is already weak in that area. DD |
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| Author: | james longhurst [ Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | yeah, what doc said! |
Quote: The only thing I would do different is to keep the head porting to a minimum and use the stock valve size. Also keep the head / block milling to .060 or less.
i built the 170 in my valiant using old speed parts that worked well on my 225s and the response was negative. dual carbs/split exhaust, .460" mp cam, ported head (that didn't get milled enough) make for a real pig off the line. top end is ok though. stick with stock/rv type buildup with this one.Be real careful on cam selection, if you were pleased with the original performance level of your 170, you may want to stick with that factory cam. A performance cam in a 170 tends to kill-off low rpm throttle responce on an engine which is already weak in that area. -james |
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| Author: | chimpo13 [ Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:19 pm ] |
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I'd use the 225 instead of the 170 since you have both engines already. When you resell the wagon, most people would rather have the bigger engine. You can just toss the 170 somewhere and offer it when you sell the wagon for "originality" purposes. I don't know what the gas mileage difference would be with a 170 and a 225 running 2 barrel carbs though. Hopefully someone who knows will answer that. |
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| Author: | Kermit Lucas [ Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 170 Street build up questions |
[quote="crosleykook"]I'm looking to rebuild my very tired '62 170. Any advice on the best rebuild kit to go with on this? Don't reckon it's an aluminum block, eh? |
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| Author: | crosleykook [ Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:25 pm ] |
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This is just the plain ole cast iron block. one weird thing I've encountered with the late sixties 225 I've got in the car now is that it rides higher than the 170. I'm not sure if this is due to the extra inch of deck or a difference in the motor mount set up... but the air cleaner just barely misses the hood. it was a tight fit getting it in-- I had to leave the heater box off the firewall 'cause it wouldn't clear the valve cover. Anybody else encounter this problem? |
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| Author: | Doc [ Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:29 pm ] |
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The 1 inch taller block really makes the 225 a tight fit into the early cars. Does your exhaust pipe hit on the floor board by chance?? DD |
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| Author: | Guest [ Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:10 pm ] |
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The exhaust *barely* clears the floor and is really tight with the clutch linkage too. This is another reason I wanted to go back to the 170. I'm planning to go with 14" rims one of these days too (you had a whole bunch of these at the slant 6 club meet, Doc-- still have 'em?). I'm guessing that whatever I gain in cruising speed I'm gonna lose in takeoff? Is there anything else to worry about with this switch? |
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| Author: | chimpo13 [ Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:59 pm ] |
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Is there any way of "fixing" the early cars for the 225? Lower engine mounts or something? Would the oil pan get in the way like that? Or did they just stuff the 225 in them at the factory and hoped no one would complain? |
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| Author: | hicodart [ Sun Nov 09, 2003 5:14 pm ] |
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Quote: Also if you want headers, they are not available for the 170, headers for the 225 need to be modified to fit.
FYI, I put a set of Clifford headers on a '63 Dart 170 SL6 and they fit just fine. Only mod was we had to grind a bit off one of the header flanges where it was bumping the steering column. It was a tight fit for fitting the exhaust pipes, but it all worked.
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| Author: | Danny [ Sun Nov 09, 2003 7:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | hmm... |
I notice that the question was about "rebuilding" the engine, but the responses kept mentioning "building". Those of us in the non-speed-demon mode appear to be in the minority. He just wants a car which runs well, not a street racer. |
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| Author: | Boostdragon [ Sun Nov 09, 2003 9:00 pm ] |
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sounds like you need a stock rebuild and a set of headers, and a 2-bbl carb, if you don't already have one. and maybe gasket-match the intake to the head, to smooth out air flow a little bit. |
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