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Manual / Auto
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8446		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  '65 Dutch Dart [ Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Manual / Auto
I've got a 4 speed A-833 in my car, this is the short ratio, performance box. It doesn't shift gears very smooth, when I change gears I really have pull it in there most of the times, it's not going really smooth.
The clutch seems to be fine, I tested this by shifting from 1 back to neutral and to 1 again, while I kept pressing the clutch, I didn't feel any resistance at any point.

What could it be? Maybe low on oil? ( gearstick is not getting hot or anything), Gearbox oil too thick? ( what oil needs to be in there?), Or synchro-ring-problem? ( I have to REALLY lower RPM's to be able to put it in 2nd. When I make short shift when pulling up fast, it clonks into gear,.. it's like roarrrrrr- tock roaarrrrrrrrrr- tock roarrrrrrr-tock ( yep that's only 1-2-3 :roll: )

What would it involve rebuilding this box? Would a rebuilt make this box shift like a modern car again, or would I still have to (kinda) double-clutch?



And my other question,.. just wondering,..

Would it be easy to change over to an automatic?
I have to pull the A-833, look for a set of pedals and make a kickdown linkage, but what else? Do I overlook anything?

Just want to see what the best way to go is, or do you guys think I should look for the newer A-833 OD ( and why?)

Thanks in advance!
Author:  '65 Dutch Dart [ Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:02 am ]
Post subject: 
hmmm,.. nobody,... ? :cry: Well I guess I just leave the clutch and gearbox out and weld the driveshaft directly to the engine, cut a hole in the floorpan and walk 'till the "direct connection" can do it's job,.. 8) :twisted:

hmm,.. maybe someone out there got any other thoughts on this?
Author:  gmader [ Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Okay, I'll take a stab at it.
I think that part of the problem is not many of us are familiar with your Spanish car. I don't know anybody here that has managed to get one to the US, and it appears to be a bit different from ours.

In spite of this complete lack of knowledge about your car, I am always game for a bad, half informed opinion :lol: .

How about converting to a modern manual trans? You already have the right flywheel, bellhousing, clutch, and linkages for this. If you convert to an auto, you have to screw around with shifting linkages, possibly cutting up the floor pan or crossmembers, and getting your driveshaft shortend ( Okay, you might have to do that anyway with a new manual box).
The other part of my rationale is why bother rebuilding an 883, when the gears are getting old, the syncros and dogs are probably in bad shape, and it will never shift as well as the newer boxes out there.


Here are some links that I found on the progress that some others have made on this front. http://www.slantsix.com/UBB/Forum16/HTML/002377.html
http://www.slantsix.com/UBB/Forum16/HTML/003188.html
http://www.slantsix.com/UBB/Forum16/HTML/003394.html

http://www.slantsix.com/UBB/Forum16/HTML/003813.html


Other resources include these guys
http://www.keislerauto.com/home.html
and this guy in OZ.
http://www.rodshop.com.au/bellhousings.htm

Good Luck!
Author:  '65 Dutch Dart [ Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:07 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the info! You made me want a 5 speed OD! ( I always want a lot :lol: )Ok, this will not be cheap, but it will improve the driving enormously! Which 5 speed is the best choice?

I understand I have to buy one of their bellhousings for $199,- or send them mine to get machined ( Shipping costs from Europe are high so I might end up going for their 199buck one)
They have 5speed upgrades, (short throw- 7 inch position, etc,etc) don't know what they mean by that yet.

So if I get one of their bellhousings and get one of their 5 speeds with a certain shifter I can start building? Isn't there more to it? :?

What is the best route for upgrading the clutch, and what will I notice from an upgrade like this?

It sounds too easy to be true, why isn't everybody doing this, or is it a $$$ thing?

Hope to get some reactions, my brain needs them right now :twisted: , something inside tells me to slow down slow down hahaha

(BTW, my engine and gearbox are completely the same as the USA ones, there are some minor differences, but in the way they work/handle they are the same)
Thanks again!
Author:  gmader [ Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Time to email Keisler
Hi,

At this point, I am afraid that I run out of knowledge. I suggest that you email keisler first, and that you work out some way to get the minimum parts that you need from them. They do seem to have a lot of expertise in this area.

On the good side, due to the current exchange rates, you can get stuff from the US really cheaply. This should help considerably.

As far as other people doing this project, there are several here at /6.org that have done it, and written up some of their experiences. Unfortunately, we do not yet have an article up, with a how-to. I am interested in doing this project, too, but I don't yet have the time or money. Perhaps one of us can get started on it, and write up the article.

Dart270 and DartVader, you guys have inspired us to some serious backyard engineering!

Greg
Author:  kesteb [ Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
A '65 A833 uses standard 90w gear lube.

My A833 acts the same way, but it is a 40 year old transmission that probably has never been rebuilt. I sometimes need to double clutch to get into first, it stiff pull to get into second, the upshift to third and down to fourth are fairly smooth.

Even newly rebuilt A833's are not smooth shifting transmissions. A lot of progress in transmission design has taken place over the last 40 years. and the A833 has not benefited from them.
Author:  Doc [ Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
hmmm,.. nobody,... ? :cry: Well I guess I just leave the clutch and gearbox out and weld the driveshaft...

hmm,.. maybe someone out there got any other thoughts on this?
Wow, you need to give the US people a chance to wake-up and reply, not many of us are on the message board in the middle of the night! :wink:

Anyway, how easy does the trans go into reverse? Putting the clutch in then selecting reverse without any gear noise is a much better test on how well the clutch is releasing.

You may want to try some thinner oil, I find the 30 weight engine oil works pretty good.

Also look in the articles section of the sight for some rebuilding tips on the 833 trans.
DD
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
It sounds like your syncros are worn out. The simplest way would be to either rebuild the transmission or replace it with a good used one (a tall order on your side of the world I realise). Depends how soon you want your car back on the road I guess.
Author:  RMDV [ Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re-trans
With regard to Doc's comments about 30 weight oil, and the possibility of worn parts, have you considered synthetic lubricants? They are used in heavy-duty applications such as transfer cases and some differentials and in the later transmissions. Just a thought. Later. RMDV
Author:  '65 Dutch Dart [ Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Wow, you need to give the US people a chance to wake-up and reply, not many of us are on the message board in the middle of the night!
Haha,.. sorry,.. was getting anxious! :lol:

Thanks all for the info! When I finish my dual exhaust and console I'll get back to this!
Author:  redworm67 [ Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:44 am ]
Post subject: 
check out passon performance.i would agree about the syncros.best wishes neighbor.
Author:  '65 Dutch Dart [ Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:50 am ]
Post subject: 
thanks!
http://www.passonperformance.com
Author:  argentina-slantsixer [ Sun Mar 07, 2004 8:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey Ducht Dart

I'm from Argentina, and I have to say that I'm familiar with barreiros' darts and 3700 gts.

Barreiros used 2 diffrent derivations of the american 833... does your shifter has some kinda trigger for shifting into reverse? if it hasn't, is the spanish transmission. These are known for eating up the syncros... and the saddest part is you won't be able to get reposition parts that easy... even spanish owners are looking for parts down here in Argentina (we have some parts for that tranny) but syncros are scarce since those boxes ate it up... if you have a trigger for gearing into reverse, you have a so called "daytona" argentina version of the 833, and there's no reposition parts gallore, but I think I may be able to help you out.

The barreiros 833 is reputed to "work better" than the daytona 833, but that's because they had diffrent ratios (they work better with dana 30 2.86 ratio) later versions of darts here in argentina used a 3.07 or 3.31 dana 44 rear end, those work fine with our "daytona 833"

if you decide to swap to an auto trans you'll need a new steering column, shifter linkage, you can solve up the kickdown issue using some lokar cable linkage (same as for the 727) and replace the clutch/brake pedals for a single brake pedal.

I wish you good luck on your issue
Author:  '65 Dutch Dart [ Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi there! Good to hear at least someone is familiar with the Barreiros Darts, that's a great surprise! You've got some good information there, completely new to me. If you've got more of this specific knowledge, I welcome you to let me know!

I do have the safety- reverse trigger device, I'll show you the best pictures I could find of it, I thought it was exactly the same as the US boxes, but you think not, right?

Here are the photos:

Image

Image

Image

Image
Author:  '65 Dutch Dart [ Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:38 am ]
Post subject: 
and here is the rearend, to be complete, I haven't checked yet what kind it is.

Image


Image

Hope you can give me some more insight into it all! :D
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