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Chronic loose front wheel bearings
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8562		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Patrick Devlin [ Sun Feb 29, 2004 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Chronic loose front wheel bearings
I hate to duplicate posts on both sites, but here is the description of my problem that I posted on slantsix.com:

Hi everybody,

Here's the background on my brakes/rotors/bearings:

The front brakes on my '68 Dart are the Stainless Steel Brakes A-153 small bolt brake conversion kit. These use 10" drum A-body spindles with a spacer, bolt on bracket, Mustang bearings (LM11949 outer, LM67048 inner), SSBC small bolt rotors, Mustang Kelsey-Hayes copy 4 piston calipers, etc.


The problem:

On the passenger side of the car, the wheel bearings keep loosening up. No matter what I do. I am adjusting properly, too, when I install new bearings. I spin the wheel while I tighten down the spindle nut to about 20ft-lb to seat the bearings, back it off a quarter turn, then tighten the nut again until I can put the cotter pin in.

The result is no bearing wobble. But if I drive the car, they will loosen again only on that one side.

I'm beginning to think the spindle could be slightly bent from when I hit a curb in the rain a couple of years ago.

Anybody have any ideas?
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Sun Feb 29, 2004 7:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Perhaps the bearing cups are not fully seated? I dunno, just an idea.
Author:  Pierre [ Sun Feb 29, 2004 9:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Maybe the mustang bearings aren't an exact match for the mopar spindles, just one of those "its close enough to put in the kit" sort of things.

If the retainer and cotter pin is in, the only way the bearing can move is inward. If it did move inward, that means it wasn't fully seated to begin with as mentioned here already. Maybe 20ft-lb isn't enough, try 30 or 40 next time? As long as you are loosening the nut 1/4 turn afterwards you won't dammage the bearings.

Last thought, if your using the KH calipers, why didn't you just go with the mopar sbp 4 piston setup? I'm not trying to be brand loyal, I could care less honestly (heck, I am using GM efi....), its just that theres no mix and matching, its a tried and proven assembly.
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Are you noticing any noises or wear at your bearings? I just installed a set in my RF wheel and they are already growling intermittently, and they were preloaded correctly.
Author:  (74.swinger) [ Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Depending on how you packed them it may not be a big deal. I always jam i8n as much grease as possible then drive a few miles and resnug the bearings. It seems new bearings will work a little of the grease out of them and out from between the bearing and race then loosen up just a little. After resnugging them they are fine.
You have to wonder about hte ford parts though. :lol: After this after all the company that said to leave the bearings loose on rangers and stuff so the rotor would slap the caliper around and keep the sliders moving. I wonder how many years the j.a.engineer that thought up that one wasted in college. :roll: o
Author:  Patrick Devlin [ Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
I replaced the races in the hub, so I'll see what happens next. The outer bearing race seemed a little loose...so I put a dab of JB weld on the new one before installing it (to make sure it doesn't roll around). I'll see if that fixes it. If not, I'm going back to all Chrysler parts...maybe a set of Viper calipers.
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Aha! There's the problem. I had my car in the shop tonight and found out why mine's getting loose. My outer race was also loose in the hub. In fact, the bearing and race were locking and spinning the race in the hub, and had worn a groove in the bore about .015" deep. What's happening is, as the race spins in the bore, it's also wearing away at the shoulder it bottoms on, removing the preload and point-loading the bearing, increasing its tendency to lock to the race, and so forth. That is the problem youre having. Ironic... our cars are visually identical, and we're having the same problem, on the same wheel...

Mine's a bit too far gone to do this, but you may be able to order a speedi-sleeve with an inner diameter that fits your race tightly, and have the outer race bore in your hub machined oversize to accept it. Speedi-sleeves are made by Chicago Rawhide (CR). They are normally meant to fit over pinion shafts and driveshaft slipyokes, axle shafts etc. to correct a groove worn into the shaft by a seal so a new one will seal properly. It should hold up in this kind of application as it is high quality steel. Look into it! :D
Author:  Pierre [ Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Heres a trick, next time you put in races, before you do so, take a sharp punch and ding the inside of the hub in a few places. This will cause a bit of the hub to get displaced outside its normal diameter, and when you drive the new sleeve it it will be held snuggly. Sort of like using a toothpick in a wood for a stripped/oversized screw hole.
Author:  Dart270 [ Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Since the bearings can only apply pressure to drive the races inward toward the center of the hub, I cannot see how the races could come loose unless they were not driven in completely to begin with.

Seems either the races were not driven home, or the bearings are getting eaten up (scoring?). Bent spindle could be a possiblity.

Lou
Author:  Patrick Devlin [ Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
"Ironic... our cars are visually identical, and we're having the same problem, on the same wheel..."

Sure is strange.

I'll try that tip sometime Pierre, thanks.

Yeah, Lou, the spindle doesn't *look* bent, but it's possible. Eventually I'll change it just for the hell of it.

Thanks to everybody for the suggestions and tips. I'll let you all know exactly what the problem is/was when I drive the car some more tomorrow and over the weekend.

Pat
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Sat Mar 13, 2004 8:13 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm not sure how my outer race got loose either. When my car was safetied in November, the rf outer bearing was replaced. Perhaps it was spalled and seized momentarily, causing the race to spin in the hub. My bearings look fine now, but the race is overheated and sits very loose in the bore.

What I did to temporarily correct this was to cut some steel shim stock of the same thickness as the depth of the worn groove, curl it and snap it into the defect, then I pressed the race right back in the bore. Tight as a drum now and no wobble. My guess is his hub isnt machined to the right inner diameter, making the race fit loose. If it is loose, it can easily spin in the bore and wear away at the shoulder, loosening the preload. I would suggest a speedi-sleeve or failing that, to bore it out and press in a steel bushing. Any machine shop can do that.
Author:  bud L. [ Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  ?
I believe the correct torque for the wheel bearings is 12 "#'s (1 ounce on the end of a 12" lever). I snug them up lightly with a pair of channel locks, then I mount the wheel and grabbing the top and bottom of the tire, I try and rock the wheel and drum(or rotor). I tighten the adjusting nut until the play just about goes away and then put the castellated lock nut on so the cotter pin slots line up with the cotter pin hole in the spindle. I've also found that not all greases are created equal. I do not use moly grease on rolling friction applications. Moly grease works best on sliding friction situations. I use high fibre disk brake grease on wheel bearings, and I pack them by hand. The only problem I've ever had, was with some cheapo Japanese crap bearings I tried once.
Author:  Mark [ Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
If I remember right the proper way to tighten the bearing is while the hub and drum is being turned tighten the nut down to 12 in pounds then back the nut off and finger tighten. A small amount of looseness is better than too tight. It is normal for there to be some. I can't remember the amount. Then you put the keeper on where the slots line up with the hole in the spindle and put the cotter pin in. These bearings do not like to be too tight. I have had the same thing happen to me with the outer race spinning in the hub after I adjusted the bearings too tight. The only correct and safe way is to replace the hub after the race has been spinning and worn the hub. I wouldn't want to trust a hub that has been shimmed or what ever after the race has spun. I've never had a spindle shear off or a catastrophic bearing failure and I hope I never do.
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