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Mild budget suspension setup
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9295		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Overdrive440 [ Wed May 12, 2004 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Mild budget suspension setup
I thought I would ask for the input of those that might know a little more than I do, but I am planning the following for my 1965 Valiant convertible:

Mopar SS springs
Mopar 0.92 or 0.99 T bars
Some sway bar of some sort (1.25"?)
Rear bar if needed?
Tubular upper control arms
Late A spindles and 11.75" disk brakes
Narrowed c-body 8 3/4" (A-body spec) with 11" finned drums
Sub frame connectors
Wheels and tires TBD, but for now 15x6.5 steel rims with original dog dish caps, and widest tires that will fit.

I have just about all the parts ready to go except the upper control arms, t-bars and sway bar(s). I'm not sure which t-bars and matching sway bar(s) I should use and would rather get it very close the first time as those parts aren't exactly cheap.

I plan on using a mix of urethane and rubber on the front end. I'm also using a V8 in this car, but will be using the same setup in my brother's slant-six '65 hardtop once the body work is done (probably before my convertible).

The goal for both cars is to have a well handling car that we can occasionally take out and run the local autocross (yeah, I know, I'm starting with a convertible, but I want a multi purpose car, and started this project and I intend to finish it).
Author:  sandy in BC [ Wed May 12, 2004 12:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
1) Sway Bar
2) Gas shocks
3) BIG tires
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Wed May 12, 2004 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  savin some $$$
If you are on a real tight budget and don't want to 'plunk' for the T-bars.
You can take the time to hunt for a set of 892/893 T-bars out of any 340./360 cars, or they also were standard on 1973-1976 318 cars with A/C...that should be a .890 bar...if you can find a late A-body cop car or Taxi those have been determined to have .94 bars installed....


There was an article in Mopar Action a year back that had some good pictures of places you'll want to weld some gussets on your UCA supports and on the K-frame to keep them from stressing or bending, or taking p the slack too....

-D.Idiot
Author:  kesteb [ Wed May 12, 2004 5:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
The SS springs will raise the rear a couple of inches and the 11" drums are a waste for an A-body. Other then that looks like a good plan.
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Wed May 12, 2004 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  A waste??
Why would the 11" drums be a waste? If he has the C body rear cut down and has the brakes that go with it, it would seem like a logical choice to use the larger brakes? I would also think they would be a plus under hard braking conditions of an autocross race. Just another opinion.

Rick
Author:  Overdrive440 [ Wed May 12, 2004 6:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
I was going to get the SS springs de-arched a bit (or use lowering block as a temporary solution, at the expense of wheel hop).

The 11" drums were installed on the diff when I got it, so they'll get used even though they may be overkill. :shock: I might have 10" drums that I can use.

Shocks: Spax would be the prefered ones (ok, I'd like konis, but those are way too much), but I might look at KYB or Rancho.

As for junkyard parts: locally, there isn't much left for A-bodies. Just slant six sedans with little or no options. There's the occasional 318 unit, but being in Canada, finding one with A/C is rather difficult. I'll have to see what they're asking for new bars at the Daimler-Chrysler store, but if I get sticker shock, I'll try and find some A38/taxi or 340/360/318 A/C bars... there's got to be some around here somewhere.

Is anybody running the 0.99" bars? are they pretty harsh, or does the car ride like a modern econo/performance car?
Author:  Dart270 [ Thu May 13, 2004 6:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Looks like a good plan. The SS springs are different side-side, no? This may cause some funny handling characteristics. I have the 0.92" bars and a 1.125" sway bar on my '64 Dart (Slanted and lightened in front) and they are not too harsh. 0.99s should be fine for a V8.

KYB shocks are pretty good and affordable - have 'em on both my Darts. Spax are supposed to be better, but $$ of course. I agree that 11" drums are a bit much, but if that's what you have then go for it. The 12" front discs are awesome.

I would say a 1.125" front sway bar and no rear bar will be the hot ticket. Almost none of the Mopar handling guys use a rear bar, and only on full race cars. I also recommend Energy Suspension PolyU rear spring bushings - much less deflection and some anti-sway character is added.

Happy building,

Lou
Author:  sixinthehead [ Thu May 13, 2004 9:02 am ]
Post subject: 
My 65 V100 sedan has a 323ci, 999, 3.55 7 1/4 SG, 11"power discs, 10"drums.
.890 bars, stock 74 springs, 1.125 front bar, .750 rear bar, KYBs.
Stops, goes, and handles like crazy on the street, never had it to the track to test the limits, though. Ride is fine, firm and controlled, not punishing.
Put those frame connectors on your convert and you'll be fine.
SS springs have too much arch for handling, they're drag specific. Rear springs should be close to flat at rest for good handling.
Author:  kesteb [ Thu May 13, 2004 2:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
The 11" brakes are big, heavy and 80% of the braking is done by the front rotors. If you are worried about rear brake performance with the 10" drums, use the F-body stations wagon drums. The flanged for cooling, just like the old 340 8 3/4" 10" drums were.
Author:  Matt Cramer [ Thu May 13, 2004 3:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Your combo sounds a lot like Mopar Action's "Green Brick." It has 0.920" torsion bars, Super Stock leaf springs, a front sway bar out of a Viper adapted with a few parts (not sure how they did that one), and the same brakes. That thing seems to be OK on road courses, although some descriptions I've heard from people who raced against it implied it could use more roll stiffness. The Brick originally used a rear bar but they wound up building up the engine to the point that the combination of a high powered motor and high rear roll stiffness made for too much oversteer on the throttle.

How much are the Spax shocks? Those sound like something interesting if I should decide to upgrade from the KYB's I have now.

One last thought - if you're new to autocrossing, it's best to learn on true street tires. Then upgrade to some R-compound tires like Kumho Victoracers. You won't believe how much those things stick!
Author:  sixinthehead [ Thu May 13, 2004 3:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've read the buildups on that car - pretty impressive against the "big" boys. He made the SS springs work by de-arching them in a spring press.
He never did show how he made the Viper bar work.
Have any of you guys calculated your weight distribution? This would affect the car's balance at the limit; I'm curious about slant vs. V8 differences.
Author:  Overdrive440 [ Thu May 13, 2004 6:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, I'm basically basing my combo on the Green Brick recipe, as it seems to work OK, but am looking at a few differences... I might try 0.99" t-bars, as some published pictures show the Brick leaned over a bit too much... (If they can still be had, I just looked at the Mopar Performance catalogs online and they don't list anything over 0.89"!).

I believe the sway bar in the Green Brick is an A-body bar, but he adapted the sway bar LINKS from a Viper (I guess to get rid of any rubber there?)... they seem to look like a rod-end setup. Firm-feel seems to have a nice adjustable bar. Might go that way if they have one that fits.

I am aware that the SS springs are different side to side.... they also make the car sit crooked. A friend of mine has some on his car with lowering blocks. They only come individually, so I can either get two lefts or two rights.... (I'm thinking two rights, as that would be the side with the extra leaf) and then get them squished so they sit flat when the car is on the ground...

I might have to bug my brother for the brakes off his Aspen SW diff then... it'll save some weight!

Building is right... I have to fix the missing floors and quarters first... but if I can get the suspension assemblies done, it would be motivation to finish the body. :)
Author:  Dart270 [ Fri May 14, 2004 7:12 am ]
Post subject: 
Manciniracing.com can get you any torsion bar pair for about $130+ship. You're right about the sway bar - Viper links on an A-body bar. I have used rod ends on my "Project V" Valiant sway bar, but haven't tested them on a track yet.

Body lean or roll is, I believe, not as important as having the car neutral and predictable. Best to get it neutral steering (no appreciable over or understeer).

Cool.

Lou
Author:  alienduster [ Fri May 14, 2004 11:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
The 8 3/4 is a bit of overkill. A 8.25 will hold up fine and will not suck as much parasitic HP as the 8 3/4.
Author:  Overdrive440 [ Mon May 17, 2004 9:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
Guess what... Mopar does not offer any bars larger than 0.89" anymore... I tried ordering some 1.04" bars today, and the part number from my 2002 catalog matches a key-chain in latest catalog... great.

I may need to order a bunch of stuff from Firm Feel, but that will get real expensive fast seeing as our Canadian Dollar is not doing so well.

And yes, my goal is to get a neutral handling car first. My brother got talking to his friend that has his suspension just about dialed in on his A-body, so I'll base my starting point on his final point and go from there.

The 8-3/4 is not really that bad considering it's going to live behind a 360 and 4-speed... besides, I don't have an 8-1/4 diff that bolts in. :) (the hardtop is getting a 225 and 4-speed... the 7 1/4 isn't going to live very long in that...)
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