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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2001 10:19 am 
I just finished swapping in a '77 A-833 into my '66 Valiant wagon with a '75 225. I used a new 10" clutch set (pressure plate, disc and throwout bearing), new pilot bushing and Dextron fluid. I had the tranny inspected before installation and was told it was in very good condition with low miles. When installing the trans, I had some difficulty getting the input shaft to slide into the pilot busing. It took about 30 minutes of pushing and wiggling to get it in. When I test drove last night, it shifted up threw the gears fine but when I downshifted from 3rd to 2nd and from 2nd to 1st there was some grinding. What could be the problem? Could the pilot bushing be the culprit?

Thanks,
Gary


theluketribe@hotmail.com


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2001 7:59 pm 
Quote:
: I just finished swapping in a '77 A-833 into my
: '66 Valiant wagon with a '75 225. I used a
: new 10" clutch set (pressure plate,
: disc and throwout bearing), new pilot
: bushing and Dextron fluid. I had the tranny
: inspected before installation and was told
: it was in very good condition with low
: miles. When installing the trans, I had some
: difficulty getting the input shaft to slide
: into the pilot busing. It took about 30
: minutes of pushing and wiggling to get it
: in. When I test drove last night, it shifted
: up threw the gears fine but when I
: downshifted from 3rd to 2nd and from 2nd to
: 1st there was some grinding. What could be
: the problem? Could the pilot bushing be the
: culprit?


Yes, it could be that pilot bushing.
Been there, done that....I basically "pounded-in" a regular pilot bushing into an "unfinished" pilot bushing hole, then forced the tranny into a bushing which is now somewhat collapsed. (smaller ID) this tends to drag the tranny along, even when the clutch is fully released.

These days, there is a special pilot bushing made for the unfinished hole. How easy did your pilot bushing go in??
DD


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2001 8:10 am 
Quote:
: Yes, it could be that pilot bushing.
: Been there, done that....I basically
: "pounded-in" a regular pilot
: bushing into an "unfinished" pilot
: bushing hole, then forced the tranny into a
: bushing which is now somewhat collapsed.
: (smaller ID) this tends to drag the tranny
: along, even when the clutch is fully
: released.
:
: These days, there is a special pilot bushing
: made for the unfinished hole. How easy did
: your pilot bushing go in??
: DD


Pardon my ignorance, but what is an unfinished hole? When I removed the 3 spd, I had to chisel out the old bushing. I used the back end of a socket and pounded the new bushing in. It went in half-way fairly easily but had to be pounded in the rest of the way. I had a difficult time inserting the clutch alignment tool. It did not slide right in. I do not look forward to pulling the trans again. Do you think I could use a hone on the bushing to increase the I.D.?

Thanks,
Gary


theluketribe@hotmail.com


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2001 8:49 am 
Quote:
: Pardon my ignorance, but what is an unfinished
: hole?


To save costs mopar would rough bore/cast the pilot hole in all cranks, those going to manual cars would get finished/machined to the correct size.
The ones with the rough hole would be destined for auto tranny cars (no input shaft on autos).
As with all things at an auto plant. Some finished cranks ended up in auto tranny cars.

-D.Idiot


res0aus2@verizon.net


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2001 6:18 pm 
Quote:
: Pardon my ignorance, but what is an unfinished
: hole? When I removed the 3 spd, I had to
: chisel out the old bushing. I used the back
: end of a socket and pounded the new bushing
: in. It went in half-way fairly easily but
: had to be pounded in the rest of the way. I
: had a difficult time inserting the clutch
: alignment tool. It did not slide right in. I
: do not look forward to pulling the trans
: again. Do you think I could use a hone on
: the bushing to increase the I.D.?


Seeing there was a factory installed bushing already there, I would say that the "unfinished hole" is not an issue here. (mostly found on cranks used with automatic trannies)

Why your is so tight...????
If you put some grease in there, then you my want to run it a bit to see if it will loosen-up. (engine running, clutch-in, tranny in gear)
Down side... if the pilot bushing gets real hot, it can seize onto the front of the input shaft, making tranny removal a real hassel.
DD


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2001 10:03 pm 
Quote:
: Seeing there was a factory installed bushing
: already there, I would say that the
: "unfinished hole" is not an issue
: here. (mostly found on cranks used with
: automatic trannies)
:
: Why your is so tight...????
: If you put some grease in there, then you my
: want to run it a bit to see if it will
: loosen-up. (engine running, clutch-in,
: tranny in gear)
: Down side... if the pilot bushing gets real
: hot, it can seize onto the front of the
: input shaft, making tranny removal a real
: hassel.
: DD


I drove the car for two days and did not loosen up. I just finished pulling the trans...again. I tested the bushing with my 3 spd input shaft...it was a little tight and there was some binding. I will be installing the slimmer Napa bushing (for auto trans conversions) this weekend. Hope this will fix the problem. Sure as heck don't want to pull the trans again. I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks,
Gary

theluketribe@hotmail.com


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:38 am 
Quote:
: I drove the car for two days and did not loosen
: up. I just finished pulling the
: trans...again. I tested the bushing with my
: 3 spd input shaft...it was a little tight
: and there was some binding. I will be
: installing the slimmer Napa bushing (for
: auto trans conversions) this weekend. Hope
: this will fix the problem. Sure as heck
: don't want to pull the trans again. I'll let
: you know how it goes.


Look carefully at anything which could "drag" and keep the trans. rotating. The pilot bushing and the clutch disc / cover all need to have clearance and fully release when applied.
If it is a 10 inch clutch, make sure the heads of the bolts are not rubbing on the edge of the disc. Also check the linkage for bending or deflection when the peddle is "floored". All the motion is needed to open the pressure plate, not deflect the linkage "sideways".
One last possibility is the disc itself, if it is bent on the hub, it can cause drag. (it will also "chatter" when engaged)
DD


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2001 11:15 am 
Quote:
: Look carefully at anything which could
: "drag" and keep the trans.
: rotating. The pilot bushing and the clutch
: disc / cover all need to have clearance and
: fully release when applied.
: If it is a 10 inch clutch, make sure the heads
: of the bolts are not rubbing on the edge of
: the disc. Also check the linkage for bending
: or deflection when the peddle is
: "floored". All the motion is
: needed to open the pressure plate, not
: deflect the linkage "sideways".
: One last possibility is the disc itself, if it
: is bent on the hub, it can cause drag. (it
: will also "chatter" when engaged)
: DD


One thing that I failed to mention is, I used the z-bar from a '76 Aspen. The point where the clutch rod attaches to the z-bar is not perfectly aligned with the hole in the clutch fork where the push rod engages. They are offset approximately 1/2". I bent the clutch rod to accommodate the offset. Could this create a problem? The z-bar that was previously used, with the 3 spd, is offset even more. To be safe, I will be installing allen head bolts, with smaller diameter heads than the original 1/2" bolts, on the pressure plate, .

Thanks,
Gary



theluketribe@hotmail.com


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