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mark dingbaum
 Post subject: headers by ed flange
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 6:58 am 
Hi,

Anyone ever use (or see) the flange made by "Headers By Ed"? Supposedly contains both the intake and exhaust ports in a 3/8" (or 1/4 or 5/16) flange. The intake ports of the flange are then sandwiched between the intake and head. Seems like a novel idea that might go a long way toward making the gasket live.

I've ordered the "header info pak" but you can seem some of what they offer at <A HREF="http://www.headersbyed.com">www.headersbyed.com</A> or search for "Headers By Ed".

mark

mldingba@rockwellcollins.com
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Matt
 Post subject: Header Flange
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 11:37 am 
I just checked that headers by ed web site. If I read it right, he wants $90 for a slant header flange in 1/4" mild.. seems pretty steep to me. If there's significant interest in header flanges, I'd be happy to have some made and for less (how much less, I don't know) and out of thicker material, mild or stainless steel.

For refference, check out the link below. It's a header I welded up for a friends turbo audi. (his design, so don't critique it too much).. Anyway, his setup uses individual flanges, which I had cut by a water jet machining guy I work with now and then. I started with an exhaust gasket, drew it in CAD, and had them cut out of 3/8" 304L stainless. Worked out to $12 each, and would have been cheaper if I'd done more. We only made 10 (two 5 cyl engines)..

If I get a general agreement from folks on exhaust port size (or a flange off a trashed clifford header to copy), then I can roll with it. Get one or two made and see how it goes. let me know.. Could also have the flanges for the preffered turbo made, but first, lets focus on the header flange at the head.

<A HREF="http://www.80tq.com/images/header_top.j ... top.jpg</A>

matt-

mhaskell@reliant.com
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Mike Andreas
 Post subject: Re: Header Flange
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 2:45 pm 
The picture looks alot like the exhaust manifold I have been thinking about. I just ordered Clifford Headers for my current setup. Offenhouser and 9400 AFB. But the next version of the intake will be a turbo from a Buick GN feeding an intercooler into 3 40 DCOE Webers. How difficult (Expensive) would a slant 6 turbo header be?

My Car in progress
MAndreas@aol.com
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Doc.
 Post subject: Re: Header Flange
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 6:22 pm 
Quote:
: I just checked that headers by ed web site. If
: I read it right, he wants $90 for a slant
: header flange in 1/4" mild.. seems
: pretty steep to me. If there's significant
: interest in header flanges, I'd be happy to
: have some made and for less (how much less,
: I don't know) and out of thicker material,
: mild or stainless steel.
:
: For refference, check out the link below. It's
: a header I welded up for a friends turbo
: audi. (his design, so don't critique it too
: much).. Anyway, his setup uses individual
: flanges, which I had cut by a water jet
: machining guy I work with now and then. I
: started with an exhaust gasket, drew it in
: CAD, and had them cut out of 3/8" 304L
: stainless. Worked out to $12 each, and would
: have been cheaper if I'd done more. We only
: made 10 (two 5 cyl engines)..
:
: If I get a general agreement from folks on
: exhaust port size (or a flange off a trashed
: clifford header to copy), then I can roll
: with it. Get one or two made and see how it
: goes. let me know.. Could also have the
: flanges for the preffered turbo made, but
: first, lets focus on the header flange at
: the head.
:
: <A HREF="http://www.80tq.com/images/header_top.jpg">http://www.80tq.com/images/header_top.jpg</A>


I like the sound of this idea Matt, I feel the thicker 1/2 flange is a "must" on Sl6 headers, working with a thinner flange and all those little spacers is a real PIA.

If we can get the cost down, I would buy a few sets for sure. I also have the lay-out if needed.
DD
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Matt
 Post subject: Re: Header Flange
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 6:48 am 
Doug,

1/2" plate shouldn't add too much cost, especially if it's just mild steel. I was really supprised how affordable this water jet guy was, especially if I compare it to cnc machine time, and the quality was great.

One question for you, would it be better to do it as a split flange (two three cyl flanges) to help with expansion problems, or is that a non issue if the web between the ports is kept light? If you have the setup already drawn up, that would help a bunch. I can email you my home address or you could attach it to an email..

I would imagine there would be at least a two week lead time, once I get everthing going, which probably won't be till next week sometime..

matt-

mhaskell@reliant.com
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Matt
 Post subject: Re: Header Flange
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 7:00 am 
Quote:
:How difficult (Expensive) would a slant 6 turbo header be?


well, that all depends. I think there was about $200 of material, maybe a little more, in that audi header, but it was stainless. Mild steel would be cheaper, and just as reliable if wall thickness is good. That header was made with hydrolic weld els, which aren't too expensive (unless they're stainless) $3-$5 each or so, off the top of my head.

The big killer is fab time, and welding. He cut all the tubes and tacked them in place with his little mig welder. Then we bolted it to a scrap head, to try to keep it from pulling much when welded, and then I TIG welded it all together.. All that was free for us, I cant imagine how much it would cost to have someone else do it for us. There's a fair number of hours wrapped up in that thing..

matt-



mhaskell@reliant.com
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mark dingbaum
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 10:34 am 
Hi,

I'd be interested in 'thick flange' also.

My original post was simply to inquire if people felt that Ed's design was a good idea, with the intake and exhaust ports combined into a single flange that was then held on via the intake. I had never thought of doing that, but it seems to make sense to me. I am a little concerned about the additional heating of the intake charge via the hot exhaust flange, but maybe it would not be too bad if the head acts as a big 'heat sink'.

Your thoughts on the design of the flange with intake ports?

thanks,
mark

mldingba@rockwellcollins.com
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Doc.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 11:35 am 
Quote:
: Hi,
: I'd be interested in 'thick flange' also.
:
: My original post was simply to inquire if
: people felt that Ed's design was a good
: idea, with the intake and exhaust ports
: combined into a single flange that was then
: held on via the intake. I had never thought
: of doing that, but it seems to make sense to
: me. I am a little concerned about the
: additional heating of the intake charge via
: the hot exhaust flange, but maybe it would
: not be too bad if the head acts as a big
: 'heat sink'.
:
: Your thoughts on the design of the flange with
: intake ports?


This leads us back around to the idea of having a plate thick enough to add injector bosses . . .
DD

Image
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Matt
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2002 11:26 am 
Quote:
: Your thoughts on the design of the flange with
: intake ports?
:
: thanks,
: mark


Mark,

I don't see anything wrong with that design, but I don't know that it helps any either. Only potential problem is intake mounting, the triangle washers won't do the trick unless there's a step on the exaust flange, but thats easy to deal with I guess. Dougs suggestion sparked my imagination a little, that would be weird to have fuel injectors in the exaust/intake flange..

My only compaints with the header by ed parts were cost and thickness (thinness?).. Seems like we can do better.

Once I get some information on how much the 1/2" flanges will cost, I'll let everyone know..

matt-


mhaskell@reliant.com
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