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 Post subject: Where to begin?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:59 am 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:48 am
Posts: 9
Car Model:
I have a 1980 Plymouth Volare, Slant 6, 225, single barrel carb in good condition. I would like to do some work on my engine to improve performance. Just about everything on the engine is stock, except the parts that have failed and have been replaced new (starter, radiator, hoses.) I am just not sure where to begin. Should I start with a 2 barrel carb, dutra duel exhaust, etc... Does anyone have any advice on where to begin? I have a picture; however, I am not technically capable enought o post it in this forum. Thanks!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:58 am 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:31 am
Posts: 969
Location: Norway
Car Model:
I would play with the distributor first, tryin different advance curves, and getting what you have working good first...
But that is just me... :roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:09 am 
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3 Deuce Weber
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Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:37 pm
Posts: 84
Location: Sacto. Cal
Car Model:
If you decide to recurve your distributor, here is a good tech write-up.

http://www.potentialtech.com/pmoran/dist-9-22-05.pdf

Caution. This is a large pdf file. If you are on dial-up it could take a long time to open up.
Charlie


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:27 am 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24446
Location: North America
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Welcome to the forum. Where are you located, and what type of emission tests (if any) must your '80 pass?

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 Post subject: Location
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:21 am 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:48 am
Posts: 9
Car Model:
I am located at Fort Leavenworth, KS. I am in the Army and tend to move around a lot. So far, my car has been to West Virginia, North Carolina, South Dakota, and now Kansas.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:36 am 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24446
Location: North America
Car Model:
The only real danger-state I can think of is California, where they take a very hardline approach to inspecting vehicles to make sure everything is original right down to the part number stamped in the vacuum hoses. OK, maybe not quite that strict, but not too far off. It sounds like you mostly travel in states where you have some leeway to modify your car as long as you don't do anything that would make your car into a gross polluter.

There are a lot of things you can do to improve your '80's performance, driveability, and economy. Some are easier than others, some are more costly than others, and some are more time consuming than others.

•Cam timing: Your '80 was built at a time when the specified camshaft installed position was very retarded, and when quality control on the assembly line was so sloppy that the cams wound up installed all over the place. And as if that weren't enough, the camshaft sprocket used in '80 is an item with an aluminum hub and nylon teeth. These, and the chains used with them, aren't notably durable, and as they wear, the timing retards. It's a hassle, but installing a new timing chain and sprockets and taking the time to degree-in the camshaft carefully will often pay large dividends in performance, driveability, and economy.

•Induction and exhaust: You're on the right track with your 2bbl idea. Dutra Duals are great, too, though you may want to reserve them for the second wave of modifications. There's a lot you can do to unrestrict the exhaust before you get to duals of any type; the catalytic converters used in '80 were pretty restrictive even if your car has only one of them; many '80 F-bodies had two. You can install a low-restriction underfloor catalyst, eliminate the underhood catalyst (if present), and use Thermo-Tec or a similar wrap on the headpipe.

•Ignition timing curves: Another hassle to rework, but worth the effort. I would save this for after the cam timing's dialed in correctly and exhaust is unrestricted, for those mods will tend to change the amounts of advance you can run without pinging.

•Rear axle ratio. You're trying to lug around a heavy car with an underspecced engine, and it probably has 2.76 rear gears if not taller. If you spend most of your time driving around town, you may want to look at swapping in 3.23s. If you spend a lot of time on the highway, maybe not.

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 Post subject: Great advice
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:48 pm 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:48 am
Posts: 9
Car Model:
This is great advice. I am going to start on the cam timing right away. A quick search online revealed a Cloyes timing chain kit for $30 through O'Reilly Auto Parts. Is this what you are recommending? If not, where would you recommend obtaining the parts? Finally, do you have a procedure that I can study to perform the replacement myself? Thanks!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:08 am 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:48 am
Posts: 9
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Ok...so I got after the timing chain this weekend. Wow! This was a bigger project than I had imagined. I was able to install the new gears and timing chain and I am in the process of putting it back together. Putting the harmonic balancer back on is not easy. I finally had to stop work on it last night; however, I plan to have the car back in working order this week.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:19 am 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24446
Location: North America
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Quote:
Ok...so I got after the timing chain this weekend. Wow! This was a bigger project than I had imagined. I was able to install the new gears and timing chain and I am in the process of putting it back together.
Wait, whoah, hold it! Replacing the chain and sprockets is only half the job. The other half is degreeing-in the camshaft. That is, using a degree wheel and piston stop to determine the cam's rotative position relative to the crankshaft, and adjusting that position via one of several methods (drilling oversize the cam sprocket's pin hole and using offset bushings, or using a crank sprocket with multiple keyways, for instance). Lining-up dots might get you almost sorta kinda close if you're lucky.
Quote:
Putting the harmonic balancer back on is not easy.
Just calls for a suitable bolt and washer to draw it down onto the crank snout.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:52 am 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:48 am
Posts: 9
Car Model:
I lined up the dots. But I believe that degreeing-in the camshaft is beyond my ability. Am I in big trouble here?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:51 am 
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Supercharged

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:53 pm
Posts: 4295
Location: Gaithersburg MD
Car Model:
If all you are doing is connecting the dots, be absolutely certain you are using a straight edge that cuts right through the center of the sprokets. Eyeballing is NOT good enough. I have missed by one tooth many times trying this. The cam timing can vary by a few degrees in either direction. In general, for casual use, a couple of degrees advanced gives better low end torque, and a peppier feel.

Are you in trouble without the dgree wheel? No, but you will simply be back to whatever the factory did, which is a bit of a crap shoot. My cam was several degrees retarded, so I drilled the sprocket, and installed an offset bushing to advance this cam 2 degrees. Since I was designing this engine to pull an overdrive gear at low RPM, I wanted the low end torgue to be strong. Had I been building a high RPM engine, I would have left it retarded.

If you have time, you might want to try to borrow a degree wheel and figure out the timing of the cam. It is pretty complicated, and will involve some study. It is the kind of thing you can figure out, and then will likely forget fairly soon if you don;t do it again. But hey, learning is what keeps you young. :wink:

Sam

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:46 pm 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:48 am
Posts: 9
Car Model:
I don't think that I am going to mess with the degree wheel. For the intended use (everyday driving), I think that I will be ok without degreeing-in. Right now, I need to go out tonight and rent a harmonic balancer installer to get the balancer back on. Once I get it all back together, we shall see how bad of a job I did.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:22 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 6291
Location: So California
Car Model: 64 Plymouth Valiant
Quote:
I don't think that I am going to mess with the degree wheel. For the intended use (everyday driving), I think that I will be ok without degreeing-in. Right now, I need to go out tonight and rent a harmonic balancer installer to get the balancer back on. Once I get it all back together, we shall see how bad of a job I did.
Heat it up, it may just expand enough to slip on.......

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64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:55 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:53 pm
Posts: 4295
Location: Gaithersburg MD
Car Model:
i don't remember the size bolt that pulls it on, but I would find out,(Dan, what size is it?), pull it on poperly, torque it down and leave it there. That is what I did with mine. They leave the bolt on the V-8's, so why not the slant?
Use the torque spec for the 318 engine. I think the bolt is a standard 3/4" 24 threads per inch. Dan, correct me if I am wrong. :wink: Not that you need encouragement to do that.:lol:
Sam

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:53 am 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:48 am
Posts: 9
Car Model:
I did it! I successfully re-installed the harmonic balancer. However, I needed to use an installer to do it. I am convinced that there isn't any other way to get that piece on. It sure is a tight fight. As a result, I got the car all put back together last night and fired it up. Surprisingly enough it runs! I was very excited. However, much to my dismay, I now have an oil leak.


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