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 Post subject: Charging system tip
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2002 8:26 pm 
Voltage regulators, both the old style (single-field system, originally found on '60-'69 cars) and the newer style (dual-field system, originally found on '70 and newer cars) rely on a good, low-resistance ground path to accurately sense and regulate the voltage output of the alternator.

The regulator grounds through the regulator's housing base to the firewall sheetmetal. This is a poor ground path even if the regulator base is shiny and bright and there's no rust in the car's sheetmetal. At T-plus-thirty-or-forty years...neither is likely to be so! Also, many of the newer regulators, including both types of MP "Constant Output" blue-box regulators and the MP "Restoration" black-with-yellow-print regulator, as well as others, are dip-coated in plastic, which makes it awfully hard to get a good ground path.

The ammeter in my '62 Lancer (converted to later dual-field charging system) was doing the flicker-dance, especially when any sort of electrical load was applied.

So, during this afternoon's car-prep-to-go-East session, I put an ohmmeter
across one of the regulator mounting bolts and the battery negative post: 15 ohms.

Like, ohm my gawd!

It took about 10 minutes of scraping with a single-edged razor blade, but I finally got
down to bare metal. Looped a 16ga wire around one of the mounting bolts,
reinstalled the regulator, looped the other end of the wire around the battery negative cable's clamp bolt, put the ohmmeter across: 1.9 ohms.

Started the car, put on the headlamps. There's still a *tiny* bit of flicker, but it's completely livable. I bet it would go away if I took my
own (old!) advice and completed the ground return loop with a wire between the alternator housing and either the voltage regulator base or the battery negative terminal.



redbear@vrx.net


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:58 am 
Good tip Dan,
I need to do this on my 66 Dart Wagon, it's been "doing the bounce" for a while now. (and with two different regulators)
DD
Quote:
:
: Voltage regulators, both the old style
: (single-field system, originally found on
: '60-'69 cars) and the newer style
: (dual-field system, originally found on '70
: and newer cars) rely on a good,
: low-resistance ground path to accurately
: sense and regulate the voltage output of the
: alternator.
:
: The regulator grounds through the regulator's
: housing base to the firewall sheetmetal.
: This is a poor ground path even if the
: regulator base is shiny and bright and
: there's no rust in the car's sheetmetal. At
: T-plus-thirty-or-forty years...neither is
: likely to be so! Also, many of the newer
: regulators, including both types of MP
: "Constant Output" blue-box
: regulators and the MP
: "Restoration"
: black-with-yellow-print regulator, as well
: as others, are dip-coated in plastic, which
: makes it awfully hard to get a good ground
: path.
:
: The ammeter in my '62 Lancer (converted to
: later dual-field charging system) was doing
: the flicker-dance, especially when any sort
: of electrical load was applied.
:
: So, during this afternoon's car-prep-to-go-East
: session, I put an ohmmeter
: across one of the regulator mounting bolts and
: the battery negative post: 15 ohms.
:
: Like, ohm my gawd!
:
: It took about 10 minutes of scraping with a
: single-edged razor blade, but I finally got
: down to bare metal. Looped a 16ga wire around
: one of the mounting bolts,
: reinstalled the regulator, looped the other end
: of the wire around the battery negative
: cable's clamp bolt, put the ohmmeter across:
: 1.9 ohms.
:
: Started the car, put on the headlamps. There's
: still a *tiny* bit of flicker, but it's
: completely livable. I bet it would go away
: if I took my
: own (old!) advice and completed the ground
: return loop with a wire between the
: alternator housing and either the voltage
: regulator base or the battery negative
: terminal.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2002 2:32 pm 
I don't know why, but my 1979 Dodge truck has a heavy 12 or 10 gauge wire from the mounting bolt of the voltage regulator to the mounting bold of the ignition ECU. It's a factory made wire, not someones home made wire. Any ideas?

cfield@ll.net


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2002 3:51 pm 
Quote:
: I don't know why, but my 1979 Dodge truck has a
: heavy 12 or 10 gauge wire from the mounting
: bolt of the voltage regulator to the
: mounting bolt of the ignition ECU. It's a
: factory made wire, not someones home made
: wire. Any ideas?


Only one possibility: It's a ground strap!



redbear@vrx.net


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:32 pm 
The ecu should have a good ground. Last year i lost a constant voltage reg at Willksborro and thought the alternator went out. wrong the voltage reg went out because it lost its ground. Bought a new constant voltage reg put on the car it did good on the shop until i loaded it on trailer and it also went downn. The regulator has to have a good ground so i put it to neg of the battery no problems. Thanks Ron

rpracing@catt.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 5:17 pm 
Offline
Turbo EFI
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Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 2:50 pm
Posts: 1742
Location: Spokane Valley, WA
Car Model:
What if you were to take a 14awg wire, put a ring terminal on one end to attach it to the regulator's housing, trace it around the engine the long way, have another ring terminal at the alt's housing, and then have the other end of the wire terminate with a third ring terminal at the battery's negative terminal? I would think that'd give a nice healthy ground.

_________________
'74 Duster w/ HEI ignition, beat to snot suspension, A904, 8.25" 3.55 SG rear, still being tuned up and gets 17 MPG

Know how they always build a better idiot? That's me


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 Post subject: Too much power
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:30 am 
Offline
2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2003 10:43 am
Posts: 14
Location: Seattle, WA
Car Model:
This is sort of related... I had a tranny fluid leak over the weekend and some was splashed on my alternater. Subsequently, my charging took a dive, so last night I changed alternators and voltage regulators just for good measure. (BTW '67 Signet post w/ dual field alt + flat pack). All seemed good - needle went to charge position. This morning got in to go to work - needle still way to charge - got to the freeway thinking the battery was just very low. I smelled something burning, I plugged in my lighter which popped-out quickly and saw that the element had fallen, burned out of the socket! I started looking for a way off the freeway fast...
I finally got off and parked, turned off the car and the starter was cranking! No wiring was burned, it seemed my voltage regulator was defective, but when I pulled one of the field wires the gage behave normally. I fear my starter solenoid was fused and I did burn out a turnsignal bulb. (I hope the in-line fuse saved my CD player.) The battery was hot to the touch, I think I barely avoided melt-down. Gotta get home to get my meter and trace the problem. Nerves of steel help in these situations.


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 Post subject: Do it!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:33 am 
Offline
Turbo Slant 6
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 10:42 am
Posts: 550
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Car Model:
Jopapa am using such a ground system, but went one step further and improved the positive side by elimating the bulkhead connector. Now all I have is a terminal at the alternator and starter. 8) Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Do it!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 8:11 pm 
Offline
Turbo EFI
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 2:50 pm
Posts: 1742
Location: Spokane Valley, WA
Car Model:
Quote:
Jopapa am using such a ground system, but went one step further and improved the positive side by elimating the bulkhead connector. Now all I have is a terminal at the alternator and starter. 8) Dave
You mean the starter relay? I just installed that ground cable/strap; and since I'm eliminating the ammeter, took a 10awg wire from the alternator's post to the battery's positive terminal. I was going to route the charging wire around the back of the engine so it'd follow the rest of the wiring, but used a shorter length and went around the front. 10awg should handle 60A just fine shouldn't it? Not too late to change it since nothing's reconnected yet :P

_________________
'74 Duster w/ HEI ignition, beat to snot suspension, A904, 8.25" 3.55 SG rear, still being tuned up and gets 17 MPG

Know how they always build a better idiot? That's me


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 9:30 pm 
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Board Sponsor
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Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2003 2:37 pm
Posts: 4194
Location: CA
Car Model:
For an alternator output and that short a length it should be fine. If it were a constant 60a over a longer length I would have used 8 or 4.
Have you ever seen 1/0? 1" diameter ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 12:16 am 
Offline
Turbo EFI
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 2:50 pm
Posts: 1742
Location: Spokane Valley, WA
Car Model:
Quote:
For an alternator output and that short a length it should be fine. If it were a constant 60a over a longer length I would have used 8 or 4.
Have you ever seen 1/0? 1" diameter ;)
Yeah that's what I'll be using when I install a winch and dual batteries in my truck :twisted:

_________________
'74 Duster w/ HEI ignition, beat to snot suspension, A904, 8.25" 3.55 SG rear, still being tuned up and gets 17 MPG

Know how they always build a better idiot? That's me


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 Post subject: Positive feed
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 12:55 pm 
Offline
Turbo Slant 6
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 10:42 am
Posts: 550
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Car Model:
Yep, am using 1/0 welding cable for my alternator/starter feed and also in my dash harness no voltage loss here! Jopapa use the largest gauge you can work with and keep splices and connectors to a minuimim. Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Positive feed
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 1:40 pm 
Offline
Turbo EFI
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 2:50 pm
Posts: 1742
Location: Spokane Valley, WA
Car Model:
Quote:
Yep, am using 1/0 welding cable for my alternator/starter feed and also in my dash harness no voltage loss here! Jopapa use the largest gauge you can work with and keep splices and connectors to a minuimim. Dave
You put 1/0 in your DASH??? :shock: :shock:

This I have GOT to see. Pics? :P

_________________
'74 Duster w/ HEI ignition, beat to snot suspension, A904, 8.25" 3.55 SG rear, still being tuned up and gets 17 MPG

Know how they always build a better idiot? That's me


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 3:00 pm 
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Board Sponsor
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Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:27 pm
Posts: 9714
Location: Salem, OR
Car Model:
I rewired a lot of big block mopar to use foot switches and welding cable for the alt and starter during demo derby season. It works good, but after a few good starts it can cook a few other components (thank god for 'lifetime' warrantee starters too...) :wink:


-D.Idiot


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 5:40 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 10:42 am
Posts: 550
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Car Model:
You put it best Duster Idiot, thank goodness for lifetime parts! other then frying my marginal amp meter have suffered no ill effects, just to be on the safe side constructed a duplicated harness in 10GA but have not had to use it! Dave


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