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 Post subject: Antilock Brakes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:50 pm 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:46 pm
Posts: 84
Location: Minnesota
Car Model:
This is not a slant six question, however it is a Mopar question. Hope someone can help. Vehicle is1992 Grand Caravan with antilock brakes. Can this van be retrofitted to the standard power brakes?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:09 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:49 am
Posts: 267
Location: Burlington / West Seattle
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Dan, you are right.

Thomas- I'm sorry for my hastily rude comments.


Last edited by sethmcneil on Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:35 pm 
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Seth, careful. You are arguing against reality in two ways:

1) Specifically, the Bendix-10 ABS system used on that generation of Chrysler minivans is notoriously and hideously unreliable, unpredictable, and unfixable. It is definitely safer to drive one of these vans with standard brakes.

2) Generally, ABS has not reduced the frequency or severity of crashes. It should've, but it hasn't. This is the real world (what does happen) vs. theory (what we think should happen) -- actual crash data from actual roads. There are many reasons why this is so, but one of the primary ones is something called risk homeostasis. Read the linked article; ABS is mentioned in the first few paragraphs.

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Last edited by SlantSixDan on Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2002 5:02 pm
Posts: 1830
Location: Waterloo, Iowa
Car Model: '23 T-bucket
Dan....might Thomas be able to simply unplug and remove the sensors from each wheel to disable the system? No inputs from the sensors, no action from the software, other than the standard ABS warning lamp.

Just a thought.

Roger


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:08 pm 
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Unfortunately not...the system's components that are so troublesome are integral to the master cylinder and ABS pump assembly. I think probably conventional power brake components could be swapped onto the '92 in question, but you'd have to do the complete swap. Booster/master, certain lines, proportioning valve...there might even be different components at the brakes themselves. :-(

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:23 pm 
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I live in the land o' snow .......

My Roadmaster supposedly has one of the better anti lock systems.
I had to disable it before one of us was killed in a low speed accident. Over 30 mph it worked fine.....under 30 in greasy snow it was like a pit bull on meth .....

Luckily unplugging anything disables it...

I saw a cool show on tv where they demoed Chev Caprice cop cars with/without ABS. The non abs cars always stopped faster.



ABS is for idiots or rental cars.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:33 pm 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:46 pm
Posts: 84
Location: Minnesota
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THANKS to all. I can use my slant six pickup as my daily driver and "part out" my Caravan. WILL THE STARTER FROM A 3.3 LITER V-6 fit my 225/6? What other parts are interchangable? I'm finding that this early version of ABS was a poor design. The transmission was rebuilt 20,000 miles ago for $1000. At this time, it's worth about $800. and I'm not sure it's wise to put another $400. or more into brakes?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:51 pm 
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Quote:
I live in the land o' snow .......

My Roadmaster supposedly has one of the better anti lock systems.
??? Where'd you hear that? I had the same (Bosch) system on my ex-police Chev Crapiece. There are much, much, much better ABS setups on the market. GM generally puts price first :-(
Quote:
I had to disable it before one of us was killed in a low speed accident.
Same here, for the same reason.
Quote:
Over 30 mph it worked fine.....under 30 in greasy snow it was like a pit bull on meth
Yep, that's the reason.

I unplugged the rear-wheel antilock on my '89 Dodge D100 pickup, and driving (and stopping, and parking) in snow and ice immediately got a great deal easier and safer.
Quote:
I saw a cool show on tv where they demoed Chev Caprice cop cars with/without ABS. The non abs cars always stopped faster.
Believe me, I believe it.
Quote:
ABS is for idiots or rental cars.
Really good ABS can be very useful. But a good ABS is expensive, and so we don't see many good ABSs on this side of the Atlantic. They have better ones in Germany.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:52 pm 
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There are no interchangeable parts between the 3.3 and the slant-6, except maybe the PCV valve.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:21 am
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Location: Orlando, FL
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I used to test drive many car/ trucks at the dealership I worked at a while back. The road was a paved straightaway (speed limit 60) and turnaround area on the right that was gravel. Many cars before just slow down to 25-30 and cut behind the tiny row of tree and end up perpendicular to the road and wait for reentry. I hope you get the visual.
I was test driving a Ford Windstar (93-96?) and went to turn around just like a hundred times before and I almost dumped it in the stream to the right. I hit the gravel while braking and my head hit the headrest.
That was a scary moment.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:34 pm 
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just yank the fuse for the system and everything should be fine. this will disable the system and allows the brakes to function as if the abs was not there.

zedpapa

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:02 pm 
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Quote:
just yank the fuse for the system and everything should be fine.
Yanking the fuse will not solve the problems with this system.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:42 pm 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:46 pm
Posts: 84
Location: Minnesota
Car Model:
Does anyone know if MANUAL BRAKES were ever an option on 84-07 Chrysler Mini Vans, or has every one of them come from the factory with power brakes? I'm still researching my options. Thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:19 pm 
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They all came with power brakes. It is very difficult to find a vehicle made after 1/1/76 with unboosted brakes in the North American market.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:43 pm 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:46 pm
Posts: 84
Location: Minnesota
Car Model:
Thanks Dan! I'm now sure that manual brakes were never an option on these. I thought I read on this site, that the smaller high torque starters from a 3.9, 3.0, and 3.3 fit a slant six if the nose cone is right?Please set me straight.Thanks.


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