sixertrk
1 BBL (New)


Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 4

Post subject: Whats this part? (Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:50 pm)


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Hi folks, 1st timer here. '80 225 /6 w/Holly 1945 (thx Ted) 93k p/u @4800# 727 auto 2.76 rear, P235 15 (orig P175 15) purchased new. I'm trying to find out what these parts are and what they do. They're located on the drivers side innerfender and look like electronic voltage regulators, but they're not. One is black with numbers 200 and below that is 4111179. The other is brown with number 210 and below that 4111828 on it. They both have 3-wire connectors going to them into the harness. They've leaked what I think is prob silicone all the way to the floor this summer. (semi hard goo, hard to scrape from the floor). Should I assume their bad and try to replace them? Seems like the wires go to sensors and carb idle solenoid. The reason for all this is I think I'm running too rich. Carb throat is very black. Plugs although electrode and porcelain look fine but the barrel of the plug internally is also very black, not crunchy deposits, just black film. Choke appears to be operable and opening fully. I replaced most of the vacuum lines that looked suspect. The oil seems to get black too quickly (after prob 6 or 8 tanks of fuel looks black color) although PVC and valve cover breather seem operable. Timing is 13 BTDC and full advance @ 2000 is 30+ (not a hint of pinging). No, I haven't yet, but will adj the valves, but don't expect them to be far off since this thing purrs and starts very easily. MPG is only 13 and I was hoping for 20's out on the hiway. I should say the air pump and plumbing along with catcon are long gone. Dual canisters are still hooked up. EGR was hooked up till today. OSAC bypassed. Plugs wires cap and rotor look acceptable. I know I've said a mouthful, just looking for MPG and have been driving to achieve it. BTW this is an incredible site, I've literally been reading for a couple of weeks and barely dented the material. Keep up the good work. And thanks for any ideas!!
sixertrk
1 BBL (New)


Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 4

Post subject: (Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:23 pm)


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The wires from the boxes go to this devise in the head with the two connectors and to the idle solenoid and maybe others.



For 3 points on the sixertrk quiz scale, name that part!

The black box #'s are; 200 and below 4111179. The brown box is; 210 and below 4111828.

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Welcome on the board.
EGR time delay module
Carb throttle solenoid control module (some parts books list this, too, as an EGR timer module)
Assume they're bad: Yes. Replace them...well, maybe not. The emission control systems on these '80s slant-6s was a mishmash of "hang on and pray" widgets that barely worked for their intended purpose (getting the vehicles past their Federal emission type approval tests so they could be certified for sale when new). The system and its components are infamous for being virtually impossible to get "all the way right". Sometimes retrofitment of different systems (or selective removal altogether) gets you much further ahead. Reading further along in your message, it sounds like much of the system has already been discarded or bypassed. If the EGR timer module puked its guts, then your EGR system is not functional anyhow. You may as well plug off the hose to the EGR valve (or altogether remove the hoses, the hockey puck looking "vacuum amplifier", and the various modules that comprise the EGR system).
Sounds like you are indeed running rich. Or at least your engine is, I don't know what your bank balance looks like Probably a carburetor problem. You may want to think about a new replacement carburetor, or (better but more costly and involved) a 2bbl "Super Six" conversion, but definitely not a "remanufactured" carburetor from the parts store (they are junk).
Does the oil smell noticeably of raw gasoline? If it does, somehow or another gasoline is getting into the crankcase. The usual culprit here is a faulty fuel pump. If it does not smell noticeably of raw gasoline (just gets black quickly) then the engine is probably just dirty inside, and you may want to clean it carefully. See my post here for details.
Assuming you're running regular gasoline (not mid-test or high-test), this suggests the cam timing may be even more retarded than they were from the factory. You may want to check for timing chain stretch: Pop off the distributor cap and manually rotate the engine in one direction until you see the distributor rotor begin to turn, then see how far you can manually rotate it the other direction before the distributor rotor starts turning. If there is any perceptible lag, the T-chain is slack and needs replacement.
Not a bad idea, see valve adjustment procedure
Not in stock form! You can tune and tweak to improve mileage, but you're pushing a brick through the wind; mileage is not going to be super great. Nevertheless, it should improve once you find and fix the cause of the rich running.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

You may want to hang onto all those removed devices; someday, even if nonfunctional, as they may be collectable for a full restoration. I've seen an old Ford emission part that I've been told were worth more than the Mustang it was in.

For example, Virginia inspection requires all the original emissions parts to be there, even if they don't work. That didn't seem to make sense to me, so I telephoned the head of the VA inspection program in Richmond and spoke to him.

He assured me that using newer, similar but not identical, parts in place of broken unavailble emisson parts was illegal, while keeping the broken original parts was legal.

Thanks very much for the replies. I'll act accordingly. A couple other things though, if I do a compression test it should be with the throttle open, all plugs removed and turn through 3 compression strokes? And what should the reading range be?

Yup, throttle and choke fully blocked open, all plugs removed, fully-charged battery, 3 or 4 compression strokes (same number on each cylinder), keeping track of what percentage of the final reading is obtained on the first and second compressions. You're looking for something over 110 or so, with good balance amongst all 6 cylinders.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Hey thanks so much for the tips. I feel like I've just met the Donald Davidson of the Slant 6 world. (he's the foremost authority for the historical Indianapolis 500).

Anyways, the compression test was fine. ~115 to 125 psi, so thats comforting. I'll do the valve adj tomorrow. I did notice that the smallest vacuum line coming from the dual charcoal canisters tees into the vacuum amplifier device which I'll remove. Should that line be reinstalled somewhere or just plugged. (if I understand, I think the canisters are still operable?) Where would the suggested reconnect be on the carb?

Probably the most significant issue I found was the heat riser counterweight was only moving say 10 to 2 o'clock, after working with it, it now moves 10 to 5 o'clock.

Based on your reply, I think I'll advance the timing some more, maybe to point of pinging then back off some? (and I will check that timing chain slop too).

Thx again.

No sweat.
'cause you haven't run into Doctor Dodge / Doc on here yet!
Yup, good result.
Mmmmmmm....that sounds like it's probably your purge line, which should get connected directly to the purge port on your carburetor.
Good job freeing it up.
I donno...12-13 is quite a bit of initial advance.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

welcome sixertrk!

these guys have helped me out a ton with my dart, and there is no way i could of gotten it running so well w/o this forum. so stick around.

good luck to you and your sl6.

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"Marilyn" 64 Dart GT & "Stella" 64 Valiant V100 Sedan - 63 Norton Project

I don't know how relevant my mpg adventures are, but just in case they help someone, here goes:
I replaced a 1968 Valiant 4 door slant 6 auto with a 68 Dart slant 6 4door auto. Mpg went from 21 to 13 for an essentially identical car. When I started looking, I found several surprises:
First thing I found was a leak in the gas tank. The previous owner had probably coped by never filling the tank all the way. Obviously part of the problem, but it was too high on the tank to leak enough to be the whole problem.
Heat riser valve was wired in the clockwise position.(Why?) Removed the wire and of course it was stuck from having been held in one position so long. Got it freed, using several brands of penetrating oil. Now it moves like the manual says it should when I open the throttle. But, when I move it to the extreme ccw position, it doesn't stop with a sharp click. The stop is rather mushy, and when I force it as far as it will go, it sticks. I assume there's no way to fix it without separating the manifolds and scraping out the soot. Is it important enough to bother with?
Air cleaner was black. Replacing it had to be an improvement.
Initial timing was on tdc. Set it to maximum vacuum and got about 12 btdc. Manual calls for tdc for US cars, 5 btdc for Canadian. Total advance looks like about 30. I say about because the marks are only calibrated to 10 btdc and I didn't add any more marks.
There was no choke thermostat or linkage. The choke stayed open all the time, yet the engine started cold with only a little pumping. So it had to be way rich to start at all, right? But when I added a manual choke cable and set up the carb (BBS) with a tach, the idle speed was right on and the idle mixture wasn't too far off either. I lost track of the original setting because I expected it to be so far off it wouldn't mean anything, but it didn't take much turning to get max rpm. I haven't opened up the carb so I don't know what it has for jets or what internal damage it might have. Funny thing, it isn't any easier to start with the choke than it was without. It still takes about the same amount of pumping.
Dwell was just about right.
Plugs were black but looked new when I cleaned them and the gap was about right.
After all the changes, I haven't driven it enough to have any mileage figures, or even to see if the plugs are black again. It may be a while before I have any results, since I usually drive my pickup ( My D 250 gets about 23 mpg, but it has the Cummins engine) except when I need more than 3 seats. Anything else I should try while the car waits for its next trip?

Just to add to the super six deal. I had a 1 BBL Holley 1920 on my Duster and I couldn't get more than 12 MPG out of it no matter what I did to it. This was even with a freshly rebuilt motor. The first problem was that it was a remanufactured job from Kragen. Never get a remanufactured carb of any kind if you can avoid it. Even the remanufactured 2 BBL Carter BBD I got was a piece of crap. The 2nd problem with the Holley was that it ran rich all the time. I rebuilt it once. Had a guy who is a carb whiz rebuild it another time and neither of us could figure out how to stop it from running rich.

I put the Super Six setup on and my mileage jumped from 12 to 17 with mixed city and highway driving. I still haven't even gotten this thing tuned correctly at all so you may want to consider the super six swap if you have some extra cash. But be careful because the price can add up quickly. Aside from getting the intake and carb. You'll also have to get the kickdown linkage, air cleaner, choke thermostat (electric is the best), throttle cable, possible carb rebuild kit as well as the australian gaskets for the manifolds. You may also have to take the manifolds to a machine shop to get flattened so they fit up against the head without leaks.

All in all, I calculated it out and if you can gain 4 MPG with the Super Six, you'll save about $600 a year assuming you fill up once a week.

This is my broken record response. Check all the wiring for voltage drop, and change the wire and/or connectors. My mileage went from 13 to 18 just with the wiring fixes. Then it went to 22 with a 2 bbl. Then it went to 25 with a 4 spdOD. That took place between '93 and 2000. I thought my mileage slipped slightly with disk brakes, and with the bigger 8 1/4 rear. It could be the bigger tires were the culprits there. But, there is a little more drag with disk brakes than with drums. I would never swap back to drums though. When my old '72 Duster was new, it got 22 MPG all the time, with just an MSD box upgrade, and a economaster carb. It got 27 highway, no BS.

Sam

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