Hi,

I have a 2 barrel six. My engine starts and runs fine from a cold start. After it has warmed up I can't restart without either starting fluid or pouring less than an ounce of gas down the carb. Then it starts fine and runs fine, but again won't restart.

What is causing this. I have strong steady vacuum.

George

So pumping the gas pedal once to the floor then back up won't start it? (that should be a nice shot of gas, causing an over rich condition).
Or when you get out to 'spritz' the lighter fluid, does the carb smell, like lots of gas (i.e percolation from hot soak, 'flooded', needs more air?)

Need more info here on what you have done vs. what you might need to have done.

-D.Idiot

Welcome on the board. Where are you located, and what's your weather been like lately? I'm not chit-chatting idly, it's just that hot-start problems are often due to ambient temperature conditions. DI's question is a good one: do you get a strong smell of gasoline when you open the hood and remove the air cleaner lid?

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

When you pull the aircleaner, is the choke closed or open? I kind of assume it is open since you are squirting starter fluid in. But my old 225 Duster was bad in this way. Go down the street to the bank, and then come out, and the choke was closed, even though the intake and carb were now warm enough not to need it. I always carried a pencil with me to stick down in the carb to prop open the choke. I even taught my wife to do this. Even though she didn;t like it, she was a trooper, and we kept the car for another 14 years. I think eventually I was able to get the choke set to eliminate this problem.

Sam

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Thanks for the input.

The engine starts fine when cold. Idles fine. Steady vacuum.

After warming up fully the choke functions correctly and stays open.

Turn off the engine. Won't restart. Choke is open. Move the throttle and look down the horn and you can see gas vapors. No strong gas odor after turning off and attempting restart then removing the air cleaner.

As the engine starts to cool for about half an hour the choke functions correctly and allows itself to close. Still won't start.

After over an hour when it is about 90% cooled off it fires right up and runs fine, warms up and the same sequence repetes itself.

I'm in SE PA about 45 degrees today.

Cleaned the carb well with spray.

Any ideas?

George

George,

Long ago I had your problem. It like to whipped me til one nite I was looking at it under the hood cranking with a hand held "bump" remote starter. I saw arcing to ground from a wire, not from a plug wire, but a wire that as I think about it may have been to the coil from the dist (not the plug kind of wire from the tower center but the skinny one from dist. to coil). Evidently the dielectric of the accumulated grease was enough cold to stop the arc, but when the grease warmed up and maybe thinnned out some, arcing could occur. I realize that in replacing the wires (again, not plug wires) I was putting good insulation in the circuit too, so I will never know if it was grease or insulation, but they were sure interrelated. I never had another problem.

Your plug wires can arc too, but you will usually hear the sparking. If you have gas, then you are lacking air or fire. Look at it at nite in the dark.
rock
'64d100

Are those vapors caused by the accelerator pump shot?

If you pump it a couple of times when looking down the throat do you see a good healthy stream of gas going in? If so, great!
If not, your accelerator pump is shot and needs replacing.

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

When you say you can see "gas vapor" when you operate the throttle with the engine warm, what exactly do you mean? When you operate the throttle with the engine warm, while looking down into the carb, can you see a strong squirt of liquid fuel ejected from the sidewall of the carb throat?

When you're trying to restart the hot engine, does it try to start at all? Do you get any indication from the sound of the starter that the engine is firing, even just a little? Or is it a completely "dead" crank, the kind you'd get by operating the starter with the ignition switched off?

Please tell us about the procedure you're using to try to start the car when the engine's warm. Do you hop in and hit the key with your foot off the gas pedal? With your foot on the gas pedal? Do you give it a pump or two?

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

When looking down the throat with cold engine I move the throttle several times and see nothing. You are telling me that this indicates a bad accelerator pump. Why does it start cold but not hot.

When I crank it after warmup it seems to fire a couple of times bunt never starts then becomes a dead crank.

Is the accelerator pump basically a carb rebuild?

George

Yes, the pump is not working or hole is plugged. The only thing getting you started when cold is the choke is slammed shut so the vacuum will draw some fuel in. That is why you have to add fuel once it is hot to start it.

Replace the accelerator pump and spray out the accelerator pump hole so it clearly squirts into the throat. If it is plugged you made need some compressed air or let it sit in carb solution overnight. Then blow the accelerator pump circuit out.
Sometimes a accelerator pump plunger piston can deform or crack.

This car must be pretty sluggish if you need to stomp on it.
As a reference: My one barrel will cause my car to go sideways when I stomp on it. I have a very healthy pump shot.

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

This does not necessarily mean the accelerator pump is dead. It means the accelerator pump is not pumping fuel, which could be because the pump is faulty, but could also be because the carburetor (or the accelerator pump well within the carburetor) is empty. Does the car have good driveability once you get it started? Does it accelerate properly, or if you kick the accelerator hard, does it gasp and hesitate before picking up speed?
OK, good information. And will it sit there dead-cranking forever until you run the battery down, unless you pour fuel into the carburetor? And will it always start reasonably promptly if you pour fuel into the carburetor?
I'd definitely put a carb cleanout and rebuild with a quality kit (try for a Walker brand kit) on your to-do list, though we do need to figure out if your accel pump isn't pumping because it's faulty or because there's no fuel in the carb for it to pump. I've posted a large manual on the Carter BBD carburetor here.

Do not install a "remanufactured" carburetor from a parts store; they're junk.

Other things that need looking at:

-Does the heat riser valve in your exhaust manifold work? With the engine cold, grasp the round 2½" diameter disc facing the front of the car, located in the exhaust manifold's central collector. Rotate the disc counterclockwise (viewed from the front). It should rotate very easily. Let go of it. It should spring quickly back to the clockwise position. If this is not the case, it is stuck and needs to be serviced. The best solvent for the task is Chrysler p/n 4318 039AB, from the dealer.

-Is the fuel boiling or draining out of the line between the fuel pump and the carb? The next time the engine refuses to start, carefully loosen the fuel line from the carb inlet. You won't get a gasoline shower, but you should see the release of fuel under moderate pressure. If you do not, you've got a fuel delivery issue that needs to be addressed. Eventually you'll want to do the fuel line mod.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Is the 12v start working?

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Slant Cecil

Thanks for all of the input.

When I look down the carb I don't see any fuel being released ever. Cold or hot. I can't road test yet.

To answer some of the questions.




It will always start after giving it gas or starting fluid after warmed up.

Fuel pump works fine.

Heat riser valve is aok

plenty of 12 volt starter and spark

engine reaches 190 f.




I am leaning toward the accelerator pump.

How would I check or replace that?

George

Download the BBD manual I previously linked to, buy a quality carb kit (a Walker kit would be my first preference by far) and both a dip bucket and spray can of carburetor cleaner, and carefully clean and rebuild the carburetor. A new accelerator pump plunger is included in the carburetor kit.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Thanks for all of the advice.

It was the accelerator pump.

Got a rebuild kit at napa. They didn't list a kit for 1983 dodge. Fell back to a 1977 holly 2280. It fits any 2280 and has the specs for all years included.

George