Hi,
I am interested in changing my '70 Duster Slant six/ auto to a 4 speed manual. Will the truck tranny work? what about the very simple slave cylinder clutch system from the truck? has anyone adapted it to an early 70's A-body? Thanks, nico

Ok, so far the " 4 speed" article has answered some questions...I now know how to tell the difference between an A-435 and the A-833 and that I want the A-833.....also need to look at the tail shaft because I need the short A/F tail shaft for the shifter to be located in the correct position...I guess the main question is will I be able to use the hydraulic slave cylinder system to make the clutch work?? or was that a luxury afforded by more space available in the truck bay? Thanks for your help! nico

I believe there are a couple of members who have used hydraulic clutch setups but I don't know the origin of their parts. Maybe on of them will speak up.

_________________
David Kight
'62 Valiant Signet, White
'98 Dodge Dakota
'06 Jeep Liberty

Growing older is unavoidable but growing up is strictly optional.

Hi Valley,

I know you are asking about reusing the truck slave system to operate the A833OD in a car. I have written some comments about using the truck slave system on a truck swap-in of an A833OD, and I don't see any reason that my experiences would be any different on a truck as opposed to your car. However, one caveat, I have not seen a Mopar-built truck with an A833OD....I understand they were made but I haven't seen one. All truck setups I have seen have either the 3 speed sideloader (A745 type) or a 4 speed toploader (NP435) which you definitely don't want in your car.

So what? The A833OD bell has a clutch fork on driver side, while all truck setups I have have the fork on the passenger side. The passenger side pushes and on the driver side it is much easier to use a pull setup. I considered cutting the bell and moving the fork to the passenger side, and might even have done it but mounting the slave to the bell was not really possible without TIG'ing a platform on the bell. Possible and I would do it but for the fact it is SO easy to use a pull slave on the driver side.

I merely connected my pull (Willwood has the correct pull to operate the 833 clutch) to the old clutch master cylinder on the firewall by using a braided steel hose with AN fittings. This meant adding an AN adapter to the master cylinder, but no sweat. I could as well have used the standard steel line, but just liked the look of the braid since I used braided steel water lines to radiator or heater.

I did a complete bench setup with a engine block, clutch and bell and tranny mounted to a stand. This allowed me to make a cardboard template for placement of the pull and design a small steel rectangle to mount to the vehicle frame and to the floorboard for stability. The pull slave is attached at its rear to the little frame so it pulls against that frame, and I extended the pull rod to the place I needed it in the fork by cutting an appropriately sized lenght of threaded rod.

Reuse the bullet shaped piece that goes in the fork end and run your rod through it to snug it to the fork. I drilled a hole perpendicular to the long axis of the rod so I could put in a cotter pin through the rod for security, but you could rely on a jam nut.

I tried hydraulic throwout bearings and decided not to use one. There were problems. The standard TOB operated by the standard fork and pull slave worked perfectly. Now that I put in my 727 I have at least two complete setups of slave, slave master cylinder from wilwood, tob's and hydro tob's I am going to sell. If interested in some pics or parts, lemme know.

rock
'64d100

Hey Rock, not to get into an argument with you or anything, but my '81 has the 833OD.
It's a side loader, 4 speed, all OEM.

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'81 D150 2WD shortbed 4spd OD.

Hello,

Hey, no arguing here...I meant to say I hadn't seen one. I know they made em. If I'd ever seen one I'd a tried to to buy it! What I was writing about was the difference in placement of the clutch forks from passenger side to driver side, and being careful to note I hadn't seen a stock truck with 833OD, thus I wouldn't swear to placement of the fork on such a beast. Seems all anyone here ever bought was NP435's.

So, do these late model ('87) truck 833OD's have a fork on the passenger side? That would be a bell worth having for some of my 'sperimenting and if one was made I can try to run it down. I just assumed (yeh I know) that the 25 or so 833OD bells I have worked with were pretty much representative of what they made for the 833OD. Heck I might have stuck with my stock slave if I could have gotten a passenger side fork!

Also, I am pretty ignorant on new stuff because I never owned a vehicle made after 1970, or an automatic til I swapped in my 727 around Christmas. My spouse has an '83 front wheel drive and I have learned about it a part at at a time, but only from necessity, as in "our shop rate to change the timing belt is $350!"

rock
'64d100

Yes they started putting the 833 OD in trucks about '78 until about '87ish. The last couple years of it, SOME had the hydro clutch. It is a way different setup from what would have been on the '60s trucks, which as Rock says were mostly used with the "granny gear 1st" NP 435. Ive seen the master and slave listed in Raybestos brake parts books. Do you know how, on an A or B body with a floor shift manual trans, you have to have a "floor hump" extension to the trans tunnel for the floor shifter? On the trucks that came with an 833 OD this was a fiberglass piece held on by Phillips screws. There were 2 different trans tunnels in trucks, '72-93. On a 2WD truck with an A/T , 3-on-the-tree manual or 833 OD, was a smaller one, as above with the fiberglass floor hump extension. On 4 WDs or 2 WDs with the granny gear 4 speed was a much wider tranny hump. You might have to get lucky and see both different ones in a yard to see what I mean.

Well, now you got me wondering. I'll have to slide under it again, and see about the trans tunnel, and which side fork. I think it's a manual, left side fork.
I would like to go with a 5 speed, at some point, (idling in low it's going about 20mph it seems) and I'm wondering which trans would be the best, and easiest swap. I am mechanical, so I'm not afraid to do a little "altering" of mounts etc. I raced a lot and built motor/trans mounts before, so thats no problem, I'm more concerned with adapters, or bell housings. Just getting into these /6's for something different, so I'm still learning.

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'81 D150 2WD shortbed 4spd OD.

I just pulled a 833OD from an 83 truck a few weeks ago. It had the bellcrank linkage and fork on the drivers side of the aluminum bellhousing. I got everything sitting over in storage now. One thing I found out, if you pull the fiberglass shifter hump off first, the trans will come out with the shifter attached. I will have the engine out of the Dart today or tomorrow, so I may go pull the trans setup out of storage for some mock up work. If I happen to have a driveshaft that will work it may go in, but I doubt I have a shaft laying around that will work. If anyone needs pics of the bell setup let me know, it might be a day or two but I can take some. It is the bell for a 9" clutch.

I also have some of the iron low starter bell's that I may sell soon, one with a 3 speed, and maybe one with a NP425, the NP435 little brother. If it is a NP435 I'm going to keep it as my big truck has that trans and it is nice to have a spare.

TopHat

Hello again truckman, valleyant, and tophat,

What I usually work on is trucks from 50's to about 1968, and as y'all porbably know from following some threads of mine the last few years I solved a number of problems pulling my A745 column shift 3 speed to swap in a A833OD, then pulling it to put in my current 727, with a segue into the T5 speed between the 3 speed and the 4 speed. These experiences lead me to comment some more cause you guys are some of the few truck guys I know of and trucks seem more agreeable to me to do some real work than do cars.

All the hump in sweptline pickups I have seen are relatively wide, as in about a foot. To put in a various floor shift trannies starting from a column I had no fiberglass hump adapter or hole in the hump. No sweat, cut it out. I did this often enough I made a template out of cardboard. The hole has to be in the side of the hump near where the hump slumps down to meet the seat, and only extends about 1 inch onto the hump top. I use the template to make a stainless steel insert to cover the hole once the tranny is in, and put a piece of inner tube under it and seal it to the hump with RTV. Then, using Hurst shifters all you need is a rubber boot to cover the shift handle to floor contact. The 727 and 904 use the same hole but you have to extend the hole on top a small amount.

I don't know what the left side and right side are because they may mean different things to different people, but usually everyone knows what passenger side and driver side are, so I just use those terms. If one of you all is looking for a slave for the passenger side I will give you mine because I don't plan to use it again, or that cast iron "universal bell"...that thing is about 70 pounds! Nice to have for the huge flywheel and clutch, but the 10 inch clutch and aluminum 833 bell have done me just fine.

I decided not to use the T5 after going to the trouble to have the T5 bell made up from the 833OD bell (in the group deal a while back). When all was said and done, I just don't believe that tranny can take the torque/weight combination my truck puts out. Since it was no more trouble to put in the 833OD than the the T5, I solkd the T5 and its bell. When you put in the 833OD you only have to cut a small notch in the crossmember at the bell to engine area. The notch is for the place where the tailhousing meets the bell. The notch only needs to be about 1/2 inch deep and 4 inches wide. I wedged in a thick piice of rubber to serve as an extra shock mount there. To put the pull slave and fork on the driver side for the 833 you will need to drill a hole through the crossmember so the rod can pass through it. The hole is about halfway between the frame and the tranny. I enlarged the hole so the rod can flex and not rattle and then welded a 1 inch pipe section into the crossmember so the rod hole wouldn't weaken the crossmember. I left in the crossmember for stability but also had to add one in at the rear of the tailhousing to bolt that tranny tail to. I located the old tranny output in X, Y, and Z dimensions and made a wood template so I could have the same center of the output shaft as was there with the 3 speed. I was trying to insure pinion angle would be the same since the various trannies are very close in length to each other. The new cross member was made of channel steel about 3 inches by 1 inch and worked like a charm. It is about a foot back of the stock crossmember. (I realize it was beginning to look like railroad ties under there, but it was strong!) With my new channel crossmember bolted across the frame to the frame flanges I was able to use two right angle pieces in it to seat the tranny perfectly and use a stock rear mount. I was hoping a flat face bolted to the frame would work, and it does!

Then with putting in a 727 you will have to cut a 18 inch section completely out of the crossmember that is in the bell to engine area.
You have to do this for the pan, but the good news is you can use the same crossmember you make for the tailhousing of the 833 because the tranny bell to mount lengths are exactly the same length! I was worried the engine would sag and snap the bell to engine area, but as a tranny shop showed me, Mopar designed the system to have an unsupported run from the block to the rear mount anyway. Cutting that mount doesn't make your cab sag or your body twist either. I have since found out that Mopar's usual practice seemed to be to just cut that stock crossmember out when an automatic sweptline came down the line, because I and others have seen some crude looking cuts that had to be from the factory....bone stock stuff.

The pinion angles are equal in all three trannies. I know because I had mine measured at a driveline shop before I did any changes so I could duplicate the angle if need be. Also the same driveshaft can be used for the 727 and the 833OD...very pleasing. I even have a spare new driveshaft with large u joint yokes if anyone wants one already made and balanced.

And valleyant anything can work in anything, but if you refer to the toploader truck 4 speed, I would say it would come close to NOT working....if you refer to the A833OD, then easy to do, and I for one would not mess with the 833, just for the OD flavor. And as you see, I would have used the simple slave if I had ever seen an 833OD bell that had the fork on the driver side. All truck bells I work with for the 4 speed have the fork on the driver side, and 3 speed slaves are all on the passenger side. Still, it seems others here have seen an 833OD bell that has the fork on the passenger side. If you had that bell, I am not sure the throw is long enough to use on a 4 speed clutch.

Tranny swaps are fun!
rock
'64d100

Thanks for all the great info, Rock. I do need a driveshaft for my truck, the original one rubbed something (muffler?) and has a groove in it, so I'm planning to get one made. I wonder if it would be worth shipping yours up here? Assuming it will fit.

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'81 D150 2WD shortbed 4spd OD.

Truckman,

Well, yes, I think so. I will price it less than I have in it to make up for the shipping. Measure yours from the centers of the u-joint yokes on the pinion and the one on the tranny end of the driveshaft.

First, mine is brand new and balanced. Second, it IS the truck one, about 3 inches in diameter, not the car one. Third, it is made up already for the large (8290?) u joints.And last, shipping mine to you will save you at least two trips to a driveline shop (taking and picking up), and you will still have yours as a spare.

rock
'64d100

Good idea, I'll get the measurement this week. My truck is in an unheated garage, and it's about 28* here now, so I'm not doing anything to it. It's supposed to get up into the 40's later this week, and I have a couple other things to do to it, so I'll get back to you later.
Thanks a bunch.

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'81 D150 2WD shortbed 4spd OD.

Hey Rock, you and me are kinda opposite; I owned a '69 D 100 for a while
(one I wish I'd have kept, did not have it long enuf to see the "differences", whether year to year, 2 WD to 4 WD, 1/2 vs 3/4 vs 1 ton, /6 vs V8, or whatever. I see that you tend to know quite a bit about the '71-older trucks. Thats great as many still have them, and seriously I hope to find another that I can hang onto a while w/o life getting in the way again (traded my rust free North Carolina '69 to the body shop for some body work on my 87 B 250 van because I "thought" I had full coverage on it and didn't find out til afterwards that I did not.)
But most of my experience and what I said above wasn't to p*ss you off, but I have worked on plenty of '75-93 (Yeah I know the body style split started in '72, but haven't had to work on many 72-3-4's.)and as I said, maybe the pre 71s all had the same tranny hump (I don't know); the '69 I had was pretty wide and kind of squarish, but the later model ones had 2 different ones; and I while I am sure that people who still own the pre 71s can appreciate having someone with your experiences to fall back on, alot of the stuff from those trucks can't/won't apply to the newer ones, unfortunately. I have seen your body style trucks in the junkyards and have seen what you mean about the cast iron master and other side
slave cylinder, but as the '87 hydro setup was quite different from the '60s hydro setup. IF he were to use the whole '60s setup including that too heavy bellhousing, he may be able to retrofit that setup as a complete unit. While I have not seen under hood of it yet, I have a buddy that has a '86/87, 833 OD, /6 hydro setup that I have been taking to him about buying for a 1st vehicle for my son but the truck needs alot of work and the guy thinks its a Hemi Cuda, pricewise. I guess that about 90% of the reason its sitting is because of a problem WITH the hydro clutch setup. Its one of those deals where HE got it from someone else who installed a clutch and could not figure out how things were supposed to go back together. From talking to the guy who now has it, it appears that it would be nothing but finding the Z bar and other linkage to go back with a conventional rod style clutch linkage setup which is what he was planning to do, so from that, I have to say that I doubt that these trucks came with a passenger side slave cylinder, if it will be "that" easy to put conventional linkage in it. I have been talking to him about getting the hydro parts from him to possibly mock up a hydro setup in my car with. I need to get out there anyways, so some time this week I will try to do just that and see how the mid-late 80s setup is SUPPOSED to go and let you know. All of the 72-93s that I have seen a stick setup on have been conventional linkage. In the mean time, does anyone out there have a FSM from a '86-'87 D series truck that could maybe look in and either post or PM to Truckman/Valleyant so that they can see how it is supposed to go?

I can tell you that the big cast iron slant/la low mount starter bellhousing will NOT fir in a car without MAJOR fab work. I tried it in a 77 Volare, to fit it I was going to have to refab the whole trans tunnel. It was more work then I wanted to do at the time, so I rebuilt the 904.

TopHat