Ok Wizard,

Thanks to SL6 Dan the pictures are posted. Go aback to my post on page 5, I have embedded the links.

My Dart used to act like what you have described push down and go slower, let up and go faster...... After much coaching by Doc to do the distributor recurve it solved that problem! Which lead to the next problem, the lean bog at light throttle. Now that's resolved!

DI,

Your right, but my wife complains if I accelerate too quickly.......I was trying to ease on the throttle at the point where the pump shot is next to nothing and there was a long bog........then it would take off. Not what you want on a Sunday drive. A few times it had gone sideways on us, so she said fix it!

Many thanks to Juan's insight and patients to coach me through the process. Now the carb behaves properly! has more power and economy as well. It is just allot more enjoyable to drive.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Couple questions, Ted:

1. You sure about that carb number? The '68-'72 Economaster was R7585 or R-7586 (the '60-'67 was R7583 or R7584, and the '73 was R7587)

2. I'm not sure I understand your 2nd picture. The first shows a totally plugged air bleed, the third and fourth show the air bleed drilled with a small bit, but what's the 2nd pic? It looks like a big-drilled air bleed.

Ed:

No BBS I've ever seen has had a plug of any kind in the path of its idle air bleed.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Dan,

I just sent you two pictures of the carb and part number for reference. I had the carb with me at the carb shop and we did quite a bit of research in several books. We found the part# 12R-7610 listed for 1968-72 Economasters to get the right gaskets, economiser accelerator pump, 3 prong plunger, etc....

The other picture is of a generic 1920 with the idle air bleed well that was plugged with lead on mine as a reference. I have three more carbs that look exactly the same. I also sent you the 2nd picture to go with it that shows the adjustable brass screw that controls the idle air bleed Eric was referring to. We were asking you for correct setting. You said none of your books had a setting listed. The carb in the photo is adjusted so you can't get any fine monel wire through it. So you could say it is plugged too!

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Bang! This picture shows what I have. That is why I said I didn't drill anything. The brass screw (kinda next to your thumb in the picture) is what I've been adjusting. I went back to a #58 jet. I turned out the brass screw (air bleed) about one turn, and turned out the idle screw to about 4.5 turns (used to get best idle with it out only about 1.5 to 2 turns). Now I can go 2.5 days on 1/2 tank of gas...it used to last only 2 days, and it was on fumes before next fill up. So 80 miles a day, thats 200 miles on 10 gallons, 20 miles to the gallon. Keep in mind, I have one dead cylinder (see my compression test post for details) so thats not to bad! When my replacement head is on, I'll do some more playing with the carb and timing.

Must've been an interesting and difficult research job; there is a Holley type number 7610, but it's not a model 1920. The numbers you sent pics of are not the carb type numbers, but rather the carburetor body casting numbers — the same body casting was used on many, many different types of Holley 1920 carburetor. The carb's type number is here on a pre-1970/71 carb with atmospheric bowl vent:



...and here on a 1970/71-up carb with ducted bowl vent:

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Eric,

That is amazing.....on 5 cylinders! Here's a good picture of the idle air bleed adjustment screw:



Right now I am running best at 4 1/2 turns as well. Great idle and no bog and wow on take offs. That is with a #64 jet. I still haven't burned up my tank yet so I am not sure the mileage. It should be lower than 23.5 mpg like I was getting with the 61-2 jet. I have been doing some burn outs and test runs with my sons G-Tech for fun. I have been bad I will report later this week.

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Dan,

Tomorrow I will go pop the top and take a picture of those numbers at that location. Thanks for the correction!

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

More details on this power loss thing, when this happens, it went LEANER. If the computer ignition curve is not right, gauge would show more richer?

Ted, I could not find the article on your distributor recurving so I can read and understand what you are doing with yours.

Cheers, Wizard

Wizard,

Send me your email and I will send you the .jpg article Doc posted. Doc and Dan have posted it on several ocassions when this topic came up. It is very useful in adjusting the spring cams and for getting a feel of the recurve procedure. Doc has posted the picture of the distributor springs near the article on recurving. If you find the picture, your close!

On the computer issue, I would think the gage or lights would show lean depending on what analyzer your using. That is why I jetted up and opened up the fuel mixture screw.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Air bleed adjust screw pic posted, last night's pictured edited to highlight the relevant parts, grey out the background and crop in on what we're looking at.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Dan,

Good work on high lighting the areas of importance. That should eliminate any confusion.
I just sent you another photo of the location you pointed out with the part number. It reads 7585 1060.

Thanks for your help!

I would think if other folks are running these carbs and are not happy with the performance, that they should check their's to see if the idle air bleed is closed or plugged. From what I have experienced, it has made the car feel like I just installed a Weber that was well tuned or a Super Six. The rebuild formula for "torque and mileage" that Doc recommended made a huge difference, however this mod to the carb and the distributor recurve have made the engine performance come alive. It really does feel more like a 318 under the hood. Power is right there and you don't have to wait.
That is really pretty good for the tall gear ratio, just what I wanted for the long 130 mile commutes back and forth to work.

Thanks Doc and Dan!

Dan,

Thanks for the update showing my Economiser carb and the serial number location.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Reading lot and thinking about it then I realized I had 2 problems.

John Connolly's suggestion was BIG air jet which I thought was totally wrong and this turned out my two suspcisons was right. One: main jet of 130 is still slightly too big and that was smallest jet I have right now. John suggested air 190 and all this air pipe is blowing down fuel that I'm getting all air as fuel at 1/3 to WOT (falls down on it's face when I wanted to open up for power).

So I went back to idle of 52 (still decently lean for cruise) main 130 and air 170. Now I have some power anywhere even WOTing from standstill - roar! No spinner or jerk your wheel yet.

Second problem was throttle was just too open and just exposing the progression hole - gets flat spot, sometimes bucking depending how cold weather is especially when engine is cold. Fixed this by adjusting the base ignition timing bit more advanced (11 instead of 8.) to bump up the idle rpm so I can close throttle down bit more. 1/4 turn was all the needed (that how small all the difference!?)

I'm going to get two smaller main jets (127.5 and 125) and one smaller idle jet (47). Weber 32/36 DFEV, 2.2L with 3 speed auto in a heavy caravan (3400lb).

Cheers, Wizard

Wizard,

Excellent work.....sounds like your almost there.

Yes, Juan had warned me no to go to large on the idle air bleed. It can cause all kinds of frustration when trying for a smooth take off. The same thing can happen if you don't have a idle air bleed. Same results, no fuel and big bog, no matter how hard you try to cover it up with a bigger accelerator pump shot!

The advanced timing comes in handy to complement the fuel correction. I have tried to run around 10 degrees but I get better economy at 16 degrees. It has a little crisper response to the throttle changes. The gentlemen that owns our local carb shop swears that 16 degrees initial is the ticket for a stock or nearly stock slant in terms of best mileage.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

This works for small carbs, on bigger carbs (like the Holley 4150/4160) it just richens up the idle circuit (the Holley 8007's usually come with the idle bleeds plugged)... if you don't need a big pump shot, you restrict the main well bleed and this will bring the main jetting online sooner (closing them off, makes for a gas hog...)

FYI,

-D.Idiot

Ted,
I have a 1920 regular Carb, not economaster, and it has a brass lined hole for the air bleed but no adjustment screw, no lead covering it, just not machined in at all. Is the adjustment screw only on the Economasters?

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Grandpa's 1974 Dart Custom 4 door 225 auto, Aluminum Radiator, 1920 Holley.