I installed the EVans Waterless coolant, and for the most part am happy with it. However, it does run hotter, which is not in and of itself a bad thing. But, the engine compartment gets hotter now. And these A body cars have a tight inner fender design which chokes off easy escape of this heat.

The hood scope is not really doing much to help. It faces the front, which is silly since the air intake is through the fender. The scoops allow air in, but none out. Maybe they should be turned around. That would be a big job, and involve body work, which I am not in the mood to do.

I have been considering an oil cooler, but don;t know where to put it. Will it do anything useful down under the car? Could I fasten one to a frame rail. It seems as if this would choke off the air flow even more. I know my Corvette had one, but never investigated where it was.

I also have been thinking long and hard of building a ducting system in each fender that draws heat out of the engine compartment. This would involve a vent in the fender right behind the front wheels, and then another vent in the inner fender with ducting of some kind to carry this heat to the fender vent. It seems as if a fan under the hood to force underhood air out might be a help. Any thoughts there? Has anybody got any theories on this idea pro or con. There was a Viper at the insane car show last night, and it has no inner fender, and the outer fender/hood has a sizable gap to allow heat to get out. So they thought this was a good idea. My guess is the Viper a full body frame, and does not need the inner fender to carry the weight of a unibody.

The thing is, the fenders and hood of this Dart are plastic, and the heat build up can actually soften the hood some. It has been very, very hot here for the last week, reaching into the upper 90's. Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this.

Sam

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The hotter underhood temperature is more a function of the higher-temp thermostat (I think you installed a 205°, right?). Aside from the higher indication on the engine temp gauge, what signs of hotter running are you noticing? IOW, what problem are you trying to solve? If it's only that you want to prevent any heat-related damage to the fibreglass hood and fenders, I think plain old insulation and maybe some vents/ducts as you describe would get the job done fine.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I'm just trying to protect electronics, the plastic body parts, and maybe make the interior a little cooler by keeping the firewall cooler.

I don;t mind the engine running hotter. I still have the 195 thermostat in it. I am running a large cross flow aluminum radiator. This combo of airflow, coolant, radiator characteristic, and heat the engine produces just settles in at 210 on the highway. A higher thermostat would make no difference that I could see since it is open below the stable cruise temp with either a 195 or a 205. And I cannot see the fan making any difference since the car moving down the road likely moves more air through the radiator than the fan can. Although, both fans are indeed on at 210. What is interesting is that at low speeds, the temp drops. This is just the opposite of water/antifeeze coolant. It is clear the engine is producing enough heat at highway speeds that the Evans coolant cannot keep it down below 210. GRanted, this is on a 95 degree day. And, 210 is a fine temp.

Do you know of anybody who has put an oil cooler on a slant? How would this be plumbed? Could you use the same oil filter set up? Would it require a remote filter, and somthing to divert the oil flow through the new filter and cooler. If so, would this delay the oil reaching the engine bearing surfaces at start up? I ask because I am certain the oil is running hotter now. Should I go to a 20-50 oil? Can a slant oil pan be modified to take an extra quart of oil? Is this a silly concern? Coking is a major concern with a turbo.

Sam

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Sam,

I am with Dan on this one. Give the 180 stat a try. I had been running the 195 degree super stat and the fan was staying on during commutes on 90 plus days. I switched to a 180 degree super stat and the fan very rarely comes on now. Like you mentioned the air going through the radiator at speed cools it just fine. I am also running a 210 degree switch on the radiator tank too.

Just took a long trip and going over several mountain passes and the temps stayed down and the fan never came on. Mileage was not bad either 24.5 mpg average.

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Sam,

Thermostat 195 is function of keeping engine at this POINT and no cooler than that. Also second function of thermostat is to help warm up of engine.
The radiator is doing the job really good because there is no sign of overheating.

Where are the electronics located? They should get the cooler air flow (use directed ducting, and let rest of the engine bay deal with the heat. Remember, engine bay air swirl around and escape to the rear.

Cheers, Wizard

I don't agree with this assessment. Remember, you are monitoring the coolant temperature, not the engine (metal) temperature. The fact that the coolant is running hotter for any given set of conditions means it is removing more heat from the engine, i.e., the temperature of the engine itself (metal) is now under better control than before. Think this over for a few minutes; there may be little or no actual increase in any temperature you need to worry about.
"sandwich" adaptor under the oil filter, or a remote oil filter setup with a cooler in series with one of the lines. Or the "pancake" style cooler that goes between the filter mounting pad and the filter, Chrysler p/n 4387 305.
Any restriction or increased length in the oil's path will do so to some degree.
How d'you know? Do you have an oil temperature gauge? If so, how much hotter is the oil running?
Definitely not. Synthetic 5w30 or 10w30 would be great.
I don't know about "silly", but I think you are not necessarily correctly interpreting what you're seeing, and as a result may be worried about excessive heat that doesn't actually exist.
Certainly is. Is your turbo water-cooled?

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Mmm...no, Ted, we don't agree. A 180° thermostat would be a large step backwards in the tuning of this engine, which is nowhere near stock and is using nonstandard coolant.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Dan,

Aggressive Ted wrote:
I am with Dan on this one. Give the 180 stat a try.

Why? Please explain why circulating more water will not help.

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

A 180° thermostat would not allow any more water to circulate, and there's no water in this particular cooling system. All a 180° thermostat would do is increase fuel consumption by delaying engine warmup, with no concomitant benefit. Please review the two or three existing threads on Evans Waterless coolant, particularly this one, to understand why trying to drive the temperature gauge needle downward with a lower-temperature thermostat would be counterproductive. Remember, Sam isn't seeing any overheating. There's no indication (that he's shared with us) that the engine is running too hot. He's concerned about engine compartment temperature.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Hmmmmm...... Interesting, and thought provoking. It never occured to me that hotter coolant means MORE heat being removed from the engine. My local speed shop says it is their experience that the oil temp goes up with Evans coolant. That is the basis for considering this.

I don;t have an oil temp gauge. I would not mind adding one. I already have a ton of gauges in the dash, but someone is now offering an A body dash pad with two additional gauges up top in the center. I guess the more the merrier. My Corvette had an oil temp gauge as part of its electronic gauge set. This was really just a read out from the ecm. Pretty clever actually.

I have also puchased a Pyrometer which I have not installed yet because I am afraid of drilling the required hole in the exhaust without removing the turbo. I am kind of enjoying driving the car for a change instead of working on it all the time, and just don;t have the desire to tear things apart just now.

The pyrometer was purchased with the idea of finding the ideal AF ratio by exhaust temp analysis.

My concern about under hood temps is kind of gut based. It just feels hotter under there to me. It might be all my imagination.

Is this Chryco oil cooler available now? Can I get it from a dealer? There is an oil line to the turbo. Could an oil cooler be run in series with this? It seems it would be ideal to get the oil cooler in before the turbo. No, the turbo is not water cooled. I have no idea how big a thing (oil cooler) we are talking about here.

Thanks for thinking about this, as always.

Sam

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You can get an idea of oil temp from your oil pressure dependence. You will lose 1 or a few lbs as you go to higher oil temps. I know this from road course driving where I am sure oil temp is much hotter than other cases, and oil pressure drops, esp at idle. No Dan, I have not measured oil temps yet...

Did your pinging problem get better?

I don't run any of my cars with a stock oil pan anymore (slosh uncovers pickup on hard cornering). It is pretty easy to modify for 1" drop that gets you 1 - 1.5 qts extra, or for more work some kickouts to get over 2 qts.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

Lou, I will have to look at your cars more carefully next time we meet.

Sam

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OK, but consider the source...this is the same speed shop that had other baseless, nonsensical "reasons" for not using Evans coolant, right?
An oil temp gauge isn't a bad thing, but my point wasn't to say you need one. It was to say don't assume you have an oil temperature control issue.
Oh, it could be so, but then the question becomes whether it's enough hotter to make any problems. I kind of doubt that it is, given how well the greatest heat source (exhaust) is wrap-insulated. The main reason for worrying about engine compartment temp is usually driveability-related; get things too hot under there and the carburetor percolation (fuel boiling) becomes uncontrollable. But you don't have to worry about that! Remind me another detail about your fuel system: is it a constant-circulation type with a return line to the fuel tank?
Yes/yes. Or www.chryslerpartsdirect.com . 'bout $125.
Surely, if you wanted to do it that way, you could in that case just hook up & plumb in a power steering fluid cooler (mounted in front of the radiator); it'd be about the right size for cooling the oil going to the turbo. But me, I think if I were going to the trouble to put in an oil cooler, I'd put one in that would cool the oil in its main flow path, not just out to the turbo.
Oof. Then regardless of what else you may or may not do, definitely run synthetic oil (right now, this week). No need to buy exotic specialty oil; ordinary Mobil-1 will be fine. I don't think you'll need an oil cooler, particularly with synth oil, but certainly it wouldn't hurt.
Not too unwieldy. It sandwiches between the oil filter mounting pad and the filter itself. It was original equipment on the 1991-1993 2.2 Turbo III cars (16-valve DOHC intercooled...the Spirit R/T and IROC R/T). Here's a composite of the '92 FPC image, with part numbers. You'll need the cooler and the connector. Once it arrives, you'd need to plumb it into the coolant system. As a practical matter this probably means in series with a heater hose.



This is not the only oil cooler you could use, by a long shot. It's just the one that happens to occur to me.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Speaking of oil coolers, I use a sandwich oil-to-water type adapter used on Ford 5.0s. I mount this to the oil filter base. On top of this, I use a Ford thermostatic adapter routed to a remote oil-to-air cooler in front of the radiator. On top of all this I mount a long style FL-A Motorcraft filter. I use an oil temp gauge with the sender reading all the oil going into the engine. From my observations, I can tell you this:

From a cold start, it takes a relatively long time for the engine oil to reach stabilized operating temp. Lets call this temp equal to the stabilized coolant temp. The oil-to-water sandwich adapter helps heat the oil on warm-up and cuts the oil warm-up time in half. Under normal driving, the sandwich adapter will keep your oil temps to within 10 degrees of your coolant temp. Under 'spirited' driving, your temps will climb.

Mitch

Thanks for all the ideas. I have no space in front. There is an AC condensor, and plans for a bigger intercooler down low, and also in front. These discussions always tend to shake up assumptions long held, and never really investigated. It's kind of like life huh? You seldom know why you feel the way you do about things. Something somebody said when you were 4 years old resides back in the subconsious. I will mull all this over. I will also go get synthetic oil.

I still will think about the fender vents. There's got to be a reason the Mopar folks vented the hood of the Viper so seriously. I know, its got more cylinders, and is designed to race, but the space under the hood is much, much bigger than the A body cars.

Sam

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