Was checking the timing on my otherwise stock 73 dart 225/ yesterday.

Followed the factory timing procedure to a tee. The timing was dead nuts on at TDC. I started thinking about how you guys play with timing so I advanced it 4* and locked the dist down.

It really made a noticeable difference in acceleration. The car was SO aneimic when I got it. I remembered my old 63 dart having way more pep than this 73. I always chalked it up to being a smog motor. I'm sure that is part of it anyhow.

So far no pinging or ill effects.

Is there a general consensus as to how far you can advance on a stock engine such as mine? Or is every engine and set of circumstances different?

Thanks,

CE

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-76 Cordoba, 360 4bbl
-68 Valiant, 273 2bbl
-67 Dart /6 4bbl, Leaning Tower of Power!!!

Exactly! I would just keep tweeking it until you start getting ping, then back off a couple degrees. I'm running mine at about 10*. Good Liuck

4-8 deg advance over stock is probably good, but don't go too far as WOT power will suffer and pinging will come in. Timing curves can be very powerful tuning tools, esp on a street car.

For a stock motor/auto trans, I would shoot for about 6-10 deg initial advance (vac unplugged, idle), and 30 total mech (by around 2800 RPM), then give about 16-22 deg vacuum advance for cruise.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

Sixteen degrees initial is about max. You may need to finely tune your vacuum pod in the process to run at that point. I had to back mine (VC-208) about 3 to 4 turns so it was not on at idle 750, out of gear which is 18 inches of vacuum. My vacuum advance comes on hard right after 18". When adjusted this way, there is no pinging. After the distributor recurve I am running 16 degrees mechanical for 32 degrees by 2500 rpm and the vacuum can of 20 more degrees on top of that for 52 degrees total.

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Ted and Lou,

Your advice is exactly what I am looking for! But....... when it comes to recurving, springs, vac pods, etc. ....... I really have to do a search on the topic and get my head around all of it. This is assuming Doc or Slantsixdan haven't already done a write up on it

Another factor is that I just bought a Super Six setup at Carlisle. I am thinking this will change everything when I install it. If so, should I just wait until I have the super six installed and tuned before I start recurving distributors and such?

Or is this an easy process that I can do now and then again later without too much fuss?

Thanks guys!

Chris E.

Oh yeah, I also put a tach on it and brought it up to the factory recommended 750 rpm at idle. Wow, that really helped too.

_________________
-76 Cordoba, 360 4bbl
-68 Valiant, 273 2bbl
-67 Dart /6 4bbl, Leaning Tower of Power!!!

Get a vacuum gage too, that will be very useful. I drive by vacuum more than the tach.

The recurve will be helpful with either setup. Dialing in the vacuum pod will help mileage and reduce or eliminate pinging all together. My car is set up like a drag car first however, a little slower on the mechanical advance, so it won't ping at all. Second, is the vacuum pod adjustment for mileage. So the baseline setting on the recurve is not using the vacuum pod at all. That is why it won't ping.

I have lots of notes organized plus Doc's distributor recurve guide if you need it.

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Ted,

Will something like this suffice?

http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool-wa ... I-701.html

I have to order a couple of tools today anyhow

Thanks!

CE

_________________
-76 Cordoba, 360 4bbl
-68 Valiant, 273 2bbl
-67 Dart /6 4bbl, Leaning Tower of Power!!!

I really prefer a normal automotive style vacuum gage that comes with all the mounting gear and internal light.
They are much easier to read when your driving especially in the early morning hours and at night. I have mine mounted under that dash to the right of the tach so it is easy to see and use as a guide to drive by. You have heard Doc say many times "to drive like there is an egg under the gas pedal". The vacuum gage will help you do that and get the best mileage.

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Oh, I got it. Ok, was thinking on a totally different plane.

Very interesting. Thank you.

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-76 Cordoba, 360 4bbl
-68 Valiant, 273 2bbl
-67 Dart /6 4bbl, Leaning Tower of Power!!!

Have you already bypassed the OSAC valve on this '73?

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

ValiantOne,

One reason I love slants is the more you learn, the more you can still learn! I was recently asking about where to slide the vac advance in....but before I got to worrying about such things I read a lot here first and tried a lot of things too. Regardless of whether you have a bone stock slant or built one you really need a few tools and a dialback timing light would be the first thing I'd get after wrenches and screwdrivers.

Then I'd study Emsvitl's threads with curves til I understood not just what he is showing in his experiments, but why changing one variable produced a specific result, and why he can draw a theoretical "ideal" curve. It is like reading about how a solonoid operates as opposed to having cut one open and 'logicked" out what would happen and tracing continuity through it.

DD and the guys who chipped in to answer my question (DusterIdidot, Ted, emsvitil, etc. are master tuners. Rob has been writing about his trials since 2004 at least. I have a binder about 2 inches thick of old threads I extracted and cut and spliced to follow specific answers over time. Well worth doing, but takes time.

As to your vac gage, I have four (!) I wanted a big one to hang on the wall so I could look easily at it while I adjust a dizzy, a small one ipermanantly n the vac line next to carb so I can watch manifold vac as I adjust idle mix, one standard Sunpro on dash, and a small one now attached in the cab for venturi vacuum after tophat's suggestion. I want to watch venturi vs. manifold vac. Of them all the big one was hardest to find, and I can email you a pic of it if you want to see one. You don't neeed one with all the red and green lines and such...you want a clear background and easy to see needle.

As to recurving, jump in! In my opinion, don't get many old points dizzies to mess with because you can't adjust the spring cams like you can with EI. If you are gonna recurve, you don't need to waste time with a points set anyway. Learn some here about ignition and HEI, and do your tuning with a spark that makes it worth your while.

I know the driving is supposed to be the fun, but darn if tuning isn't at least equal for me, because it is a puzzle that gives you increasing rewards for mastering each step....and it's a lost art.

rock
'64d100

Yep. First day I got it

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-76 Cordoba, 360 4bbl
-68 Valiant, 273 2bbl
-67 Dart /6 4bbl, Leaning Tower of Power!!!

rock, thanks!

I'm going to search out some recurving posts and start reading. I love what you are saying here. I'm totally with you. Funny, often I don't actually DO any of the things I research. Just researching them is fun.

But the tuning I have a real use for. It'll be fun to learn it, do it AND drive it

I also appreciate the info on vac gauges. It gives me a good starting point.

Gracias!

CE

_________________
-76 Cordoba, 360 4bbl
-68 Valiant, 273 2bbl
-67 Dart /6 4bbl, Leaning Tower of Power!!!