I know there have been lots of homebrew work to do efi on the /6, but I'm looking for a simpler more bolt-on style solution. Does anyone have any opinions on the kits out there? I have seen many by holley, accel, etc. Or perhaps something a bit more custom from www.rancefi.com or force-efi.com
So far the cheapest I have found was a holley tbi kit with a 670cfm throttle body for $750, and from there it can skyrocket to $3k for a full blown mpfi setup

Pierre,
It all depends on how much $$ are you willing to spend. Pro-Jection is a nice solution for a strip/street car. If you want to go EFI port injection contact Hesco Motorsports in AL. He built a complete EFI port injection set-up using a MP aluminum intake for Jack Tullocks valiant a few years ago. It used Electromotives controller and worked quite well!
Also check out TWM induction. Throttle body replacements for a variety of carbs.

http://www.hescosc.com/
http://www.twminduction.com/
http://www.electromotive-inc.com/

Just a few ideas. We are currently running electromotives engine managment system with TWM replacement throttle bodies for the Weber DCOE manifold.

Tom

Do you know if the holley kit is too much for the /6? I have a pretty mild engine, just bored out 30 over and with clifford shorty headers and clifford intake. The smallest commander950 holley kit is rated for a minimum of 150hp, and comes with a customizable holley computer. A holley tech rep said that this would run too rich for a 225, but I got the feeling that he wasn't familiar with these engines much.

I talked to someone at www.howell-efi.com and they said they can custom program a chip for my engine. I'm not sure which throttle bodies they use in those kits. Only downside of these is that you can't tune it unless you swap out chips.

the howell kits all use GM parts, including throttle body, injectors, pumps, ecu, sensors and the rest. They make the wire harness to make it all work, sell adapters to bolt it to your intake, and program the proms. You end up with a system with is quite durable, and with all the key parts available through normal part suply sources, except for the Prom chip, which don't just die unless you do somthing to make it die. The Holley Projection uses a very similar style TBI with their own injectors, fuel pump and electrics. Early systems had terrible reputations of poor fuel management, failing injectors and noisey pumps. Closed loop kits improved things to some degree, but the range of adjustment wasn't great enough to really dial it in the way people expected. I've been told newer digital systems are better, and the comander 950 is a whole new deal that I know little about. I don't know if all their TBI issues have been sorted out now, or not. Howell has a pretty good reputation with my jeep buddies. Affordable-efi.com will do a 6cyl TBI system I think, also using GM ECUs and TBIs. Oem ECUs have the advantage of offering some ability to learn on the fly which isn't available on most aftermarket ecus. SDSEFI.COM sells stand alone fuel injection controllers, as well as fuel and spark controllers. They are fair priced for what you get, leaving you to handle the manifold construction which isnt too hard. And they have some great tech articles for getting non-efi folks up to speed on how it all works, including making manifolds and such. My former college romate is involved with the construction and marketing of 032EFI programable ECUs, most have been sold to audi turbo owners, but it is configurable from 1 to 10 cylendars, fuel control only. http://www.034efi.com/034ecu.html, his page http://www.80tq.com/fuel.html, I welded up that header..

Back to work..

matt-

I am hearing more and more good things about the howell kits... I'm starting to lean more towards this. I'm not so keen on the idea of poking a large hole in the firewall, but that is a small sacrifice. Seems to me the biggest deal with installing these kits is fabricating new fuel lines, including the return line. Hmm, I wonder what size lines came in my duster I might get away with reusing that one and just making a return line.

Side note - With clifford shorty headers, I have a y - pipe joining the two a bit passed where the bellhousing of the tranny starts. If I mount the o2 sensor just past this point, will the exhaust gasses be hot enough, or should I get a heated o2 sensor just to be safe?

02 sensor would be fine there. You can put it up on one of the collectors of the headers. It won't know the difference between one set of 3 cyls and the other. Many factory V6 & V8 cars only use one O2 sensor on one bank.

TBI systems only run 12-15psi, making fuel lines easy to deal with. Return line can dump into the filler neck of the tank, through the vent tube, if that's easier, or you can use a surge tank in the engine compartment and not use a return line. sdsefi.com has a diagram of what I'm talking about. I'd rather do the return line.

matt-

Through the vast # of efi pages I have been studying, someone used this approach for return fuel line. Take one of the standard metal case filters, and pull out the filtering element. Poke a hole through the side and weld a hose fitting on it. the return line can go to this new fitting, and the pseudo-filter goes between the tank and pump.

Anyone make a delete plate for the fuel pump? Thought I saw one for the other mopar engines but not sure if they are same.

Do you have to send the EPROM back to howell each time to have it reprogramed? If so I stay away from it. If you can program it with a laptop or device that they sell you(like Hypertech units) then OK.

Tom

The fuel pump block off plate will be the same as a big block Mopar or Chevy. Or they are easy to make from a thick piece of aluminum. Use the pump gasket for a pattern.

Cecil

Matt, I'm pretty sure you still need a return line despite having a surge tank. The purpose of the tank is to ensure you've always got the pump inlet covered with fuel (maintain fuel pressure)regardless of the levels of g's your pulling on an almost empty tank.

_________________
Cheers!
Al T

Yes, that's why it's usually done. In a road racing environment, the fuel in the tank get rather aireated, even with a fuel cell, and the surge take is designed so the placement of the inlets and outlets create a vortex that helps pull the air out, and there is often a perforated plate near the bottom above the pump supply, that terminates the vorticy..

That said, one could use a similar idea, have the mechanical pump dead head into a tank, much like a giant fuel bowl, and have this tank gravity feed a efi pump, through the fuel rail, through the regualator, and back to the surge tank. Considering the efi pump never returns more fuel than it takes, the net surge tank pressure will be that of the mechanical pump minus what is consumed by the injectors. Only negative with not having a return line is air bubbles from the tank & mechanical pump will get caught in the tank and have to be bled. Might be enough of a reason to scrap the idea, or add a return line.

matt-

Tom,

I am not sure on their exact policy but I don't think they sell a seperate prom programmer. Heck I don't need a programmer I have access to several prom programmers I just need to know what addresses map out to what values. According to their webpage they say "PROM should be almost an exact match to your engine". If not they will make you another one.

Sounds scary to me. I know the amount of tuning done on my race car(1971 Scamp 95 magnum 360 with EFI) and the Simca. Small changes make a big difference. There is absolutely no way they will get it right. Maybe close but not right. You will need to have the ability to change the program.
Ours can be changed from the passenger seat riding down the road with a laptop. That ability has been vital in setting up the Scamp.

Just my .02 worth.

Tom

Tom,

What EFI system are you using on the Scamp?

matt-

Hi Matt,
I am running the Electromotive WinTec 2. Same system we run on the /6. It uses all of the factory sensors. I bracket race the car every weekend and have had no problem for the last 4 years. This past weekend I got rained out but the two practice runs were 8.574 and 8.572 with 1.781 and 1.778 60' times.
This is a stock 95 dodge truck motor that had 20K on it when I got it. I have never even removed the heads or intake.

If you want any specifics or pics just ask.


Tom