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 Post subject: Mini Starters
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:55 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Location: Bowling Green, KY
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I have read some about mini starters on here, but where exactly can I find a one, and what one should I buy? Do I have to have any special adapters or anything?

I really want to stop the winding down of the origional one. Its kinda annoying if your engine dont start and you have to wait 5 seconds to try it again.

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'74 Duster 225 Super Six w/904
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:14 pm 
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That long wind-down (but I'm sure it's not really five whole seconds) is common on "remanufactured" starters, which are junk. See here for info on the mini starters.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:14 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Location: Bowling Green, KY
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Rock Auto has some new Nippondenso starters for $125 bucks. Are those made in china or are they good?

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'74 Duster 225 Super Six w/904
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:32 pm 
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Look again. The $125 starter is not a new Denso starter, it's a new "NSA" starter. Chinese copycat. There is a new Denso starter (Nippondenso now call themselves "Denso") for $166.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:12 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Location: Lubbock, TX
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Just go to a wrecking yard, pay 20 to 30 bucks for one. Take it home and clean it up, maybe paint the armature cover black, and get a soloniod contact repair kit, since that is usually the only thing to go out on these units. Alot cheaper than having to buy a new one. I did all the above to my mini starter (Off a '94 Dakota V6) 6+ years ago and have never had a problem with it.


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 Post subject: Be careful....
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:27 pm
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Location: Salem, OR
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Just go to a wrecking yard, pay 20 to 30 bucks for one.

You might have the yard test the starter first while you are there... I got a $35 special from the local PAP... I got it home and plugged it in and it wound verrry slowly then smoke started rolling out of the casing (and not the good smelling smoke either...). I took it back and asked to see the donor vehicle... the crank had seized in the engine and the owner must've just cranked the starter until it overheated/gave up/etc.... they didn't have another since these are very popular items... it became a 'core' for a local rebuilder...

make sure to 'check' it...

-D.Idiot


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:52 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Location: Bowling Green, KY
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Just go to a wrecking yard, pay 20 to 30 bucks for one. Take it home and clean it up, maybe paint the armature cover black, and get a soloniod contact repair kit, since that is usually the only thing to go out on these units.
Alright, I will go to the junkyard on sat and see if I can pick one up. Where can I get the contact kit?

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'74 Duster 225 Super Six w/904
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:45 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Location: Lubbock, TX
Car Model:
Schucks/Kragen/Checker auto or http://www.partsamerica.com. Victory Lap, part number ND34SOL solonoid repair kit.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:02 am 
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TBI Slant 6
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Location: Portland, OR
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Crud.
This is another thing Charlie needs soon. Her starter is running super slow. I hate waiting for the wind down to to try and restart it.

How easy/hard is it to rebuild a starter? I have the original out of the Swinger in a tote. Not that I plan on rebuilding it, I'd rather go for a new one. Just curiuos If I'd be able to do it, as I am not the most mechanically inclined gal. But i am learning. I even studied my Dart book last night.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:54 am 
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Location: North America
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Quote:
Schucks/Kragen/Checker auto or http://www.partsamerica.com. Victory Lap, part number ND34SOL solonoid repair kit.
Uhhh…"Victory Lap"? None fer me, thanks, I'm driving! :twisted: Cheap off-brand stuff like this is okay to buy if what you're trying to do is degrade one of the good Japanese-made starters into one of the cruddy Chinese-made ones. For the small amount of money involved, and the small additional effort, I think iit's worth it to buy real parts instead of toys. See here.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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Last edited by SlantSixDan on Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:01 am 
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How easy/hard is it to rebuild a starter?
Follow along with this description in your factory service manual (the Peterson book in the linked thread also has an excellent pictorial on how to rebuild a Chrysler starter).

Disassembly

Loosen and withdraw through-bolts holding round field frame to pinion housing.

Grasp armature and pull rearward, taking care not to lose stack of metal and/or fibre washers surrounding rear shaft stub. Set armature aside.

Carefully pull field frame slightly rearward; rotate frame and pinion housing together until screwed-together connection comes into view. Remove screw. On 4-series starters, this is the only connection between the field windings and the brush plate. On 3-series/1-shunt starters (round field frames originally stamped 2095150, 2875560, or 3656650), there is another,
smaller-gauge wire connection between the shunt coil and the brush plate.
This passes through the brush plate and is soldered to a post thereon;
removal requires desoldering.

Once the field windings have been separated from the brush plate, separate field frame assembly from pinion housing assembly.

Early-style pinion housing ('62-'69, casting # 2095219) with no externally-visible fasteners holding the brush plate to the pinion housing: Brush plate is
held by a single screw, accessible once the armature is removed.

Late-style pinion housing ('70-'87): Loosen and withdraw two through-bolts
holding plastic brush plate to aluminum pinion housing.

Separate brush plate assembly from pinion housing, taking care not to lose
4-arm washer that will be in pinion housing under brush plate, coaxial with armature shaft hole. (NOTE: Some early-production starters do not have a 4-arm washer. In that case, upon reassembly you must either install a 4-arm washer or make your own brush holdoff tools. This can be done with two 8" lengths of flat spring steel approx 1/8" wide. Simply bend each piece into a "V").

Grasp copper contact washer, stem and end spring assembly and withdraw
from solenoid winding. Set washer/stem/spring assembly aside.

Inspection, repair & reassembly

Inspect two round contacts on forward side of brush plate for pitting and
deformation.

Inspect four brushes for wear. New-brush thickness (from cable attachment
to wear surface) is ½".

If smaller of two round contacts is in acceptable condition and brushes are in acceptable condition but larger of two round contacts is not, use NAPA Echlin SM140 (=Chrysler 2275551) contact and washer package and place brush holder back in service.

If smaller of two round contacts is not in acceptable condition AND/OR brushes are not in acceptable condition AND/OR you do not possess a soldering iron and/or skills, replace brush plate assembly, NAPA Echlin STK24 (large-frame starter, field frame stamped 3755250, 4091950, 4111860 or 4145360) or STK16 (early small-frame starter, field frame stamped 2095150 or 2098500) or STK19 (all others, field frame stamped 2875560, 3656575, 3755900, 4091975, 4111855 or 4145359)

If above but you DO have an iron, high-temp solder and skills, replacement
brush set NAPA Echlin M503 (large-frame) or M501 (small-frame).

On washer/stem/spring assembly, inspect contact washer spring-side surface
for pitting and burning. If not excessive, washer may be returned to service. Washer is reversible; retainer clip can be removed from stem, spring and washer unstacked, washer flipped to expose fresh working surface, and spring-washer-clip stack reassembled. If contact washer is severely thinned by pitting, replace washer/stem/spring assembly, NAPA Echlin SM132.

Inspect commutator bars for excessive wear and burning, and entire
armature and winding assembly for signs of overheating.

Remove sheetmetal guard from pinion housing gear case. Inspect for signs
of abnormal wear, shredded or missing washers. There must be a fibre or leather "brake washer" between the driven gear and the pinion housing (when this is worn or missing, the starter takes forever to spin down after use). Do not allow oil or any other lubricant to come in contact with the brake washer.

Hold the starter drive body from turning, and use your other hand to
attempt to rotate and back-rotate the starter drive pinion through a full
revolution. The pinion should only ever turn in one direction with no backslop, and there should be a fair amount of resistance to its turning
in the one direction. If backslop is found or the pinion turns easily in
either direction, replace the starter drive. Grasp the driven shaft and
check for sideplay; if any perceptibly exists, bushing replacement is
indicated. Test-fit the armature assembly in the pinion housing and check
for sideplay. Test-fit the rear cover on the armature stub shaft and check
for sideplay. If any perceptibly exists, NAPA Echlin SM101 end plate
w/bushing assembly.

Apply 2 or 3 drops of quality lubricant (I usually use synth engine oil)
to each accessible shaft bearing, taking care not to oil the brake washer
(access that bearing from the motor side of the pinion housing). Apply a
small brushing of antiseize compound to the driven gear within the gear
case. Reinstall the sheetmetal cover.

The 4-arm washer has a specific purpose: It holds the brushes outward for
you pending installation of the armature. To use it, place it in the center among the four brushes, with each arm pointing towards the pinion housing side of the brush plate. Make sure each brush spring is properly bearing on each brush, then install the brush plate assembly with holdoff washer holding the brushes. Make sure the plate and gasket are seated correctly, then install the brush plate fixing screws to the pinion housing. Line up the field frame connection with the brush plate connection and assemble it. Push the field frame onto the pinion housing/brush plate assembly, taking note of the alignment pin (if present). Push the armature quickly and firmly through the field frame and into its pinion end seat (This will push the holdoff washer out from among the brushes just as the commutator bars take the washer's place). It sometimes help avoid hangups at this point if the armature is twisted a bit as it is pushed home.

Line up and install the end cover and the through bolts, tightening these
evenly and firmly.

Test the starter. If it doesn't work, you didn't stab the doll with the right pins in the right places.

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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Last edited by SlantSixDan on Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:09 am 
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EFI Slant 6
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Posts: 488
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Quote:
Quote:
How easy/hard is it to rebuild a starter?

Test the starter. If it doesn't work, you didn't stab the doll with the right pins in the right places.
Nice


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:02 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 7834
Location: Portland-ish
Car Model: Fiat 500e
I have a starter that I opened to clean and re-lubricate which must not have gotten the proper VooDoo upon reassembly. It's the original from my '67 Valiant so I put it in a safe spot. It has one small field wire so it must be the 3-series/1-shunt variety. I freely admit that I'm woefully inexperienced with Chrysler built starters. I do like Denso starters for the weight loss, increased cranking speed and long life.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:05 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:02 am
Posts: 1817
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
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I just get them from a yard also. Harry's u-pull-it sells them(any starter) for $17 normally. Every so often the have starter week then they are $12. I have yet to unbolt one, they are usually hanging free after some one pulled an engine or trans. One was sitting on the bumper waiting for me, I think I sent that one to Paul. I need one more for the convertible. Last time we were there they had just had a starter week so they were all gone.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:41 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:49 pm
Posts: 707
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Car Model:
Quote:
Follow along with this description in your factory service manual
I finally got my FSMs! They are so handy, but I could never rebuild a starter after looking at those pictures and reading about it. Way above me. (for the time being)

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'74 Duster 225 Super Six w/904
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