Hello,
I presume y'all have had a look at Mr.Johnsons website ?

GTS225 wrote:
"If you would be so kind,do you have an end goal, and would you care to share such?"

It would seem that the "end goal"is to have us Slant Six enthusiasts use some of the product illustrated here.

From my point of view,part of the appeal of these old engines is their basic,somewhat primitive design and function. I do'nt care if I lose a few horsepower through windage loss,and the knowledge that my car can keep up with modern equipment (some of which has oil management equipment fitted) appeals to me.

regards,Rod

I pulled a pan from a 1973 Dodge Dart and just finished measuring some angles. There appears to be about a 5 degree slope to the rear. At two quarts the sump well is just bleeding over to the rear. At 10 degrees total tilt to the rear the water is up to the rear gasket. Anything over this and the rotating assembly would be fully involved. A 10 degree tilt to the front had the same effect.

Basically, if you are flooring the pedal in even a stock car with this pan you are churning the oil full of air. Likewise if you are even braking hard.

These aerations levels will go well past what was presented in the SAE paper.

Looks very nice.

I spend a lot of time adapting designs to work in harmony with other people's work.

Sandy, I owned and modified a slant six about twenty years ago. Pulling the pan just now brought back a lot of memories.

When I first started making the scrapers the slant six was one of the first patterns. That involved borrowing engines from Charlie and several other people.

Here is the first pattern I made on Charlie's 170



That is Charlie's tray:



There are a fair number of these and later styles of scrapers out there in the world being used. For about the past six years now. Probably four or five generations of design.

My real slant six was a 225 in a 1966 Valiant Signet.

I milled the head, ported it and installed stellite seats. Rebore. Three angle valve job. I had Cal-Cams grind me a stage one cam. He increased the bevel on the lobes and crown on the lifters. Complete engine overhaul.

I ran the DC windage tray and a good sized oil cooler.

I ran Clifford tri-y headers with a larger diameter exhaust and hemi muffler. I ran an Offy manifold and Holley 390 with a 429 Cobrajet aircleaner setup.

I had a deep tranny pan, tranny cooler with remote filter and a modified torque converter. New three row radiator with flex fan. Kevlar brake linings installed front and rear.

I used torsion bars from a V8 Barracuda and heavy duty rear leaf springs. Sway bars front and rear.

I retrofitted electronic ignition.

Kevin,

Great pictures of the SL6 scrapper and windage tray.
Thanks for posting.
How can I get a SL6 scrapper since they are no longer listed on your site?
I am pulling my engine and would like to install one.

Thanks!

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Are you planning to build items for the slant? if so, what kind of cost are we looking at? Two different crank scrapers, one for the 225 and another for the 170? Possibly a windage tray with some of your enhancements?

Drop us a bone here. My crank is constantly paddling oil, fouling 5 and 6. Go figure why?
CJ

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

Yes, I will continue making items for the six. I will put up the pictures again.

I was asked years earlier to make windage trays for the slant six. One of the things that held me back was the difficulty of making a _reproducible_ pattern. I also do not like just doing knock-offs. * This is much more difficult than making a one-off with the motor in front of you. Remember that cutting the pieces out is just the beginning of the fabrication task. Many people chimed in that the contours of the pans vary substantially. This is very true. When my wife and I started the business we were both students and did not have the money to go out and buy a core for every slant six engine much less every pan.

* I did do a knock-off of the Studebaker Type R windage tray insert as a courtesy to Studebaker owners. Studebaker is no longer in existence, of course. There are a ton of items that are not listed on the website.

Aside: I should mention what is probably common knowledge to you all -- yesterday I went to three different wrecking yards including two large pic n' pulls. There was exactly one slant six equipped vehicle. Too bad I did not want to develop more parts for the AMC 4.0 right now -- tons of them in Jeeps there.

I have gone through a similar problem with Fiat engines and windage trays. I felt really bad telling owners that I could not afford to do it. Roughly, designing a reproducible tray eats up at least a couple thousand dollars of my time.

With the Chevy straight six I did design windage trays and integrated scrapers after driving over to Orlando to borrow a couple blocks and pans. I gave one to the owner and I think I sold one other.

Here are some pics. That is a Teflon seal at the rear to allow people to match it to their pan. I have seen (so far) exactly one OEM windage tray with a seal -- that was in a Nissan RB26DETT straight six. You cannot see it very well but there is a bolt in panel that can be moved to another position to allow for different main caps holding the pickup tube bracket. The height of the tray can also be adjusted.





Per the slant six, I have patterns for the 170, 198 and 225. The 198 has only been sent out a few times and is an inferred pattern. In case you don't know, Chrysler did a huge number of morphology (surface features) variations on its cranks. I think with the 2.2 and 2.5 they seemed to come up with a different casting or forging for every variation of the engine. That is an exaggeration but not by much.

I cannot tell you a cost yet on the modified downstroke scraper because I have to make a few to see how long they really require.

Some last remark that has been prodding me for a couple days now:

You are not necessarily going to see pump gear damage from cavitation. If you read the paper referenced carefully that information is in there.

You also have to be careful about simply lowering the pressure output of the pump in competition.

To the engineers in the crowd witnessing the spectacle: Read SAE 932785; pay attention to pages 13-17. It is not sufficient to scan the Cliffnotes, err.. abstract.

Dear Kevin and all,

I am watching this thread with some interest. Don't let anyone here beat you down. Your personality and others are clashing, which happens from time to time. You should know that your tone can be a bit off-putting for some, but it doesn't bother me.

Personally, I think the biggest problem is the depth and width of the Slant 6 sump, and associated slosh causing all sorts of bad things under accelerations. You mention this slosh issue. THIS is where I think efforts should be focused, but it is more difficult than a scraper or windage tray.

I have build several lowered sumps, settling in on 3/4"-1" drop as usable on the street and road course. My latest for my road racing "Project V" has a 2" tall kickout on pass side (1qt extra), 7/8" drop (1qt extra), and extensive baffles. 2qts more cap than stock. I will run this with one of your dual scrapers and no windage tray in the spring. I probably have 30-40 hrs in this pan, and it is the single most "developed" part of the whole car. My previous best pan had less baffling and no kickout and was OK up to the point I put some stickier tires on my '64 Dart and it uncovers the pickup on hard left turns @ ~ 1G.

My personal feeling on the oil pump gear is that the new gears' material suck and many of the cam gears are hobbed poorly. I am using old pumps in good condition for my motors. Cavitation or no, the materials and machining are a huge effect here, and the good parts can apparently handle the freight. Cameron Tilley in AUS can back this up and only uses regrind cams and older gears, and has had no failures since. He has made 370 HP flywheel with a 240 ci Slant.

Thanks for listening,

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

Kevin, If you need to borrow any engine assys, or pans, to develope parts/pieces, just ask. If I have it, you can use it.

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225

Hi Lou,

The scrapers for the BMW M10, M20 and M30 have acceleration trap doors added to address the left sweeper problem. Reports from Spec E30 racers have been very positive for many years now. I can add this feature to the slant six scraper. I agree that the sump is the main culprit here.

I mentioned to another owner that an electric scavenge pump could be plumbed into the pan to transport pooling oil back to the pickup. BMW used (chain driven) dual pumps like this in their S50 Euro designs and the S54. You would have to investigate the legality of such mods. The pumps run about $350 and are rated for use with hot engine oil.



Edit: For over a year now I have been sending out what I call "Pumper" designs for the Mopar B/RB and the Ford FE for use with stock pans. They use scoops oriented over the passing counterweight surface to impart a vector into a slanted tunnel leading back to the pickup well. This is a passive pump which should not be in violation of the rules.

I am putting both a windage trany and scraper on mt new race motor - I am also Building a deep sump Pan similar to lou's for slosh control.

This will be a drag race Only machine and will not see any turns except off the return road.





Greg

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http://www.youtube.com/hyperpack