Hello everyone, I just picked up a '64 dart GT a couple weeks ago, and the it has some idling problems. plus the accelerator pump seemed to be working inefficiently, so I picked up a rebuild kit from the Carburetor Doctor www.carburetor.ca and dove in.

The instructions were a bit cryptic, and I've always owned electronic ignition vehicles, so the nomenclature was all greek to me. I feel like i got it all handled well after reading some posts by Doctor Dodge, and Slant Six Dan... however I can't seem to find a good reference about the float level, and aout the Idle Jet that threads into the float bowl casting.

I also noticed that this carb had a service sticker on it from a previous rebuild and it looks like they did something funky with one of the holes where the ball should go.

I will address my concerns below each picture below.


Here's pretty much what I started with. On the left side of the housing, near the bottom, where it would mount you can see that there is a broken off bamboo skewer pushed into a hole that would go into the throttle body chamber. It's plugging that entrance of air. It doesn't look like there are threads in that hole when I removed it. Is that hole supposed to be plugged or open???


Here is my float/jet casting assembly all cleaned up. My question here is about the float level. My spec sheet says 1/4" between the mating surface and the top of the ridge on the floats (measured on the center of the float) But does that mean 1/4" below the line? Or should the floats droop past the mating surface line when inverted? I'm not sure the point of the Float system, or else I would deduce this info on my own. What could the adverse reactions be if it was set at... say 1/8" or at 3/8"?


Float assembly again. In this picture you can see 2 things that are of concern. The gold flathead screw threaded into the housing in the dead center is labeled the Idle Jet in my rebuild sheet. But it doesn't say how to reinstall it. Is it supposed to be snugged down? Or the head level with the mating surface? Again, I have no idea how it works, so it's hard to make an educated guess.

The 2nd thing, is that in the exploded view, one of the balls is supposed to go into the chamber next to the rectangular chamber that is filled in with something. I think I can hear the ball inside there, but I'm not sure. With everything 100% broken down, when I inverted the assembly, it still made a tinking sound, like something was loose or rattling when inverted.

Well, I hope I didn't bore you all! This is a great forum, seems like people are SO willing to help, and I haven't seen any real drama yet. It's a nice change of pace from the late model forums I frequent.

Thanks in advance!

In the "Engine" area of this forum, (The place your at,) there is a sticky up top that is titled Engine - Frequently Asked questions. Take a look at the "Carburetor Operation and Repair Information" link. You will find the manual for the BBS in PDF format there.

On page 7 of the manual it shows how the adjustment tool works, so it would be the top of the float below the sealing surface. Save that file to your computer for much faster searching!

No clue what the passage is your talking about. As far as I know, Bamboo Skewers were not used as plugs at any of Carter's manufacturing plants.

CJ

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

Welcome on the board! If you haven't stumbed upon them yet, Carburetor operation and repair manuals and links to training movies and carb repair/modification threads are posted here for free download.

This what you're working on is a "frankencarb"; probably a factory "remanufactured" job. It's got mismatched components. The upper casting (air horn with choke lever and choke pull-off) is from a '64 or later carb, while the centre casting (venturi, float bowl, etc.) is from a '60-'63 carb. Pay careful attention to the match between upper and centre castings at the outer diameter of the carb throat. If you have a smooth match, no problem. If there's a ledge or shelf, that's no good and you'll want to find a different carb to build up.

The bamboo piece should be removed and the hole left open; it's for balance calibration of the spark advance and idle transfer vacuum levels. The idle jet should be screwed down tight, but don't hamfist it. The accelerator pump discharge ball is below that plug you found on the pre-'64 carbs; don't worry about it, just use the old accelerator pump plunger to force carb cleaner through the accelerator pump passages, then to flush through with clear methyl hydrate, and call it good.

Did the carb kit not include a cardboard float gauge to use for setting the float height? It should have. Very difficult to set the float height properly without such a gauge, which spans the upper surface of the centre casting. You install the inlet needle and seat, place the gauge across both pontoons of the float, invert the casting and check to make sure the legs of the gauge just touch the float. If they push the float upward, the adjustment is too high. If there's an air gap between the legs and the pontoons, the adjustment is too low.

Check for slop (wear) where the throttle shaft goes through the throttle body (lower casting). If there's much of any perceptible slop here, it'll spoil idle quality, fuel economy, and driveability; the throttle body will in that case need to be rebushed.

Once you've got the carb squared away, tune-up parts and technique suggestions in this thread.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Wow, great info!

I seated the idle valve, and the kit did come with a ruler, not the kind that seems to be standard, but it worked. I used an allen wrench spanned across the mating surface to find that line and used the small, straight cardboard ruler to make the measurements. It's pretty much dead on at 1/4" I was just curious to what the adverse reactions would be to having it slightly off.

Copy on the removal of that "plug" It will not be re-installed. Everything else is going back together smoothly. I will probably have another set of questions regarding the rod installations, they seem to ALL be sloppy. And I know that the linkage on the choke on the valve cover was not even installed to the carburetor... This poor car got a run for its money with one of the previous owners.

Thanks for the quick and great advice, guys! I'll be back in a couple hours for another download of Slant Six Truth

By "rod installation" I assume you mean the throttle shaft in the throttle body? This will definitely want addressing. There's no prefab bushing, and this is a precision machining operation—not just a simple matter of removing a worn-out bushing and installing a new one. From the factory, the steel throttle shaft bears directly on the aluminum throttle body itself. With use and age, the hole in the throttle body gets wallered-out (a Texas term meaning "wallowed out") and air leaks in at the throttle shaft/body junction. The repair operation consists of carefully marking the placement and orientation of the throttle plates relative to the shaft and body, removing them, removing the shaft, overboring the throttle body, and installing bronze, brass or Delrin bushings to restore a tight fit that still permits free movement of the throttle shaft. It's likely the outfit where you bought the kit does this service, or can point you at where to have it done.

Not on the valve cover, it's on the exhaust manifold. You may wind up wanting to install one of the Electric choke kits if your existing choke thermostat (the metal box on the exhaust manifold) is no longer working correctly or if its rod up to the carburetor has been bent or broken.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Sorry, I meant the linkages. The throttle body shaft seems fine. The linkages were all off from the specs, so I had to tweak them quite a bit, which kinda worries me, having never done this before. My fall back was always that I could just put it back together and it would at least run! Now, I'm bending rods quite a bit to get it to the specs provided in the rebuild kit. I guess it should run better now tho....

Here's where I'm at now.

I bent the connector rod for the plunger, and have both the pin (under the cover plate) on the 1st notch, and the rod in the 1st hole according to the spec sheet. The gap, when the throttle is 100% open is 1/16" as shown in the pic, but it just seems like such a short throw, like there wouldn't be enough gas with such a short raising of the plunger.




here is the choke system. I hope I have it all hooked up properly. The spec sheet says there is an adjustment of 0.010 - 0.040" but is very vague. The manual you both recommended says it's between the butterfly and the wall of the choke valley, or whatever you call it. Makes sense, that's the only thing I can seem to measure.

Thanks again for the help. here's some pics of the car, and of that crappy choke.

If it turns out to be the case, you can always just use the middle hole. You did oil and flare the new accelerator pump plunger's leather cup, yes?

With the characteristics of today's fuels, I tend to give that vent plate (round disc at top-front) a little more clearance than specified; shift its clip up one notch.
Yep, you do.
Yeah, the 0.010" to 0.040" adjustment is between the two halves of the choke lever on carbs like this with the compound choke lever (called a "spring staged" choke). Don't worry about it; it's not a critical adjustment and seldom goes wrong. The crucial adjustment is the vacuum kick (choke pull-off) adjustment; that's with the choke plate pushed closed and vacuum applied to the pull-off; you use the specified drill bit or gauge to measure the clearance between the top edge of the choke plate and the inner wall of the carb. Adjust by bending the legs of the U shaped link between the pull-off and the choke lever.

Your choke thermostat is mutilated. Go ahead and order a #1231 electric choke kit.

You're missing a necessary vacuum hose nipple. See the hole in the side of the carb, below where the accelerator pump lever screws to the side of the carb? That needs to have a hose nipple in it. That's for your vacuum advance.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

OK, Dan. I moved the pin and linkage on the pump assembly to the 2nd slot/hole, and i get a little more normal throw on that pump. Seems more proper. I did soak the leather and flare it to the point that it was pretty tight on the walls of it's little cylinder.

The vacuum nipple came off with the hose, so I'm good there.

I think I'm ready to reinstall it all. Without the electric choke installed yet, any tips on keeping it running well, or to set the idle screws?

I think all the dimensions are set pretty well, so I'll see what I get when I hook it all back up!

Carb is installed, and i adjusted the air needle on the base and the idle screws by ear. It idles great now, and has a little better throttle response. As soon as I closed the choke manually it idled amazing, so I bent that choke rod straight and hooked it up so it's closed almost all the way for now. Once the electric choke kit comes in, we'll see how muh better it can be.

I committed a terrible sin, however.... The fitting that the fuel line hooks up to was overly tight on it when I removed it, and I think it was partially stripped on the carb body. When I tightened the new one down, it pretty much stripped the threads of the carb body off completely. UGGGH!!! I'm gonna have to find some sort of thread restore gunk to put in there to build up the material inside that opening, and re-tap the threads. For now it's snugged up to the gasket, but I am not trusting any leaky gasoline near that exhaust manifold.

Thanks for the help guys. Any tips for creating the ideal air/fuel mix, or any adjusting that I may attempt now that I'm back on the road?

Nope. Gotta be metal to metal there. The gunk you have in mind is not to be trusted at this safety-critical, gasoline-soaked junction.
Exactly.
That info is in the same thread as the carburetor operation and repair manuals here.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I'd find some new or better parts to replace the fuel inlet. If that let's go, it could be a catastrophic failure complete with flames.
Somebody may have a complete BBS core for you, or even an NOS part.
Depending on where you are, somebody close by may be able to help you out with something appropriate.

I'd like to compliment you on your pictures. The image quality is excellent!

CJ

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

Thanks CJ, I'm using a Canon Rebel XTi.

I guess I should get the word out for a throttle body for a BBS, or an entire unit as a core. Any specific years that I would need specifically?

It's not the throttle body you need, it's the main body -- and that means you'll want the air horn that goes with the replacement main body, since the upper and main castings tend to warp together. You're on the hunt for another carburetor, and you'll need another kit.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

You're right. Dangit! Oh well... live and learn.

keep an eye on Ebay. i sold a perfectly good 1920 there a few months ago. and noby but 1 guy wanted it. that person got one hell of a deal.

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48 Indian Chief
2003 Ford Ranger XLT extra cab
1997 Geo tracker(Suzuki Sidekick)