The front passenger side of my recently acquired Valiant rides low and the wheel has excessive negative camber (I think I have that right....the top part of the wheel leans in towards the engine).

This is my first torsion bar car, so I'm kind of a newb when it comes to this stuff. That being said, I'm thinking a torsion bar adjustment will help, if not cure this situation.

The driver's side has the same situation going, but to a lesser degree. I'm thinking that some prior owner wanted to lower the car down and screwed it up.

If my assumptions are correct...in order to raise the car and change the camber, should I loosen the adjuster bolt or tighten it?

If my assumptions are wrong, what would be another possible cause of this situation?

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1954 Ford, Tudor Mainline
1976 Plymouth Valiant, 4 door


www.automotive-ninja.com

I found this generic torsion bar advice on the internet....hopefully it applies to A body cars.


Turning the adjustment bolt clockwise will tighten it, raising the amount of load that can be placed on the bar. This will raise the vehicle when it is taken off the jack stand. Turning it counterclockwise will lower the available spring rate and cause the car to sit lower. Turning it too far in either direction can cause problems, so follow the specific vehicle's manufacturer guidelines when making wide adjustments. Normally, only one full turn will be enough to give the desired result.

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1954 Ford, Tudor Mainline
1976 Plymouth Valiant, 4 door


www.automotive-ninja.com

Yes it follows for A-bodies. Righty tighty lifty. There is a specified ride height.

I would take it in and get a proper alignment done. Find out what is wrong first.......(like are your bars shot? are the ball joints shot? is the A-frame rubber shot, etc? The FSM calls out a specific ride height before the alignment can be done. What your describing is changing the ride height, which effects allot of other adjustments.

I usually carry a FSM procedure and spec sheet photo copy with me to the alignment shop since our cars are so old and they don't have accurate info. I make sure they do it right! Once your front end is set to factory specs, it handles and rides allot nicer......and reduces tire wear.

I have gone through this a few times before getting a shop to do it right. Then my torsion bars lost their spring and went flat, riding on the frame stops. So I recently installed stiffer 360 Duster Twister V8 .892 & .893 torsion bars. What a difference that makes! Then I bought a 1"1/8 front sway bar. Now the front end locked/stable and dead steady on our rough freeway pavement and has a very nice ride too!

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Yeah...I'm suspecting that a general rebuild might be in order.

I tightened the adjustment bolts and it did get the front end up out of the weeds to a nicer, manageable ride height. And....during the test run I just made, the front end seems to track more true as well.

However, I'm still noticing that negative camber issue (to a lesser extent) on that passenger side wheel.

How hard is it to replace torsion bars and the associated misc. bushings, etc?

_________________
1954 Ford, Tudor Mainline
1976 Plymouth Valiant, 4 door


www.automotive-ninja.com

It's not super difficult. The trick is to get the torsion bars out. With the weight off the front end, take out the clips at the rear of the t-bar, and either clamp them in a home made 2X4 clamp, and beat on the wood with a BFH, or clamp on a piece of angle iron and press them out with a bottle jack.

Rustyfords,

In addition to what Slantfin prescribed, I found that the slightest mal-alignment or clocking of the lower control arm and frame hole where torsion bar slides in will cause binding, and difficult bar removal if the slightest pressure is still exerted. Solution is to back off the nut that faces forward, securing the lower control arm, until that arm has sufficient play as to allow movement of the bar in all directions. Once that assembly can be manhandled, and rattled around a bit, the bar will generally work loose without too much blue air & foul language.

This loosening of the lower control arm also makes installing the new bar very easy. Don’t forget to clean all rust & grit from the female bar receivers, and coat both hexed ends of the new bar with grease before installation.

This would be a great time to have new lower control arm, and strut rod bushings installed. Worn lower control arm bushings can contribute to camber problems. Pressing out, and in, the lower control arm bushing will be a machine shop, or perhaps a Mopar friendly garage job unless you have access to a press.

Aggressive Ted:

[quote] So I recently installed stiffer 360 Duster Twister V8 .892 & .893 torsion bars. What a difference that makes! Then I bought a 1"1/8 front sway bar. Now the front end locked/stable and dead steady on our rough freeway pavement and has a very nice ride too[/quote]!

Dittos on Ted’s experience. I rebuilt my front end, with new bushings all around, installed 0.930â€￾ Firm Feel bars, new shocks, and installed a 1 1/8th inch anti sway bar as well. Result is flat cornering, no more wallowing flopping mess over rough pavement. Best bang for the buck of any project to date for the old girl.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

This is adjusted with the cam bolts that secure the upper control arm to the body. However, it may be that the control arm bushings are badly worn. Replacing the torsion bars is fairly easy. The bushings are best replaced with a press, although field expedients can be used. Replacing the lower ball joint is simple enough. Replacing the upper ball joint REQUIRES a special socket.

There is false information circulating, mainly in Haynes manuals that says the upper ball joint is a press fit. DO NOT BELIEVE IT. It is a screw fit!

The upper ball joint can be very difficult to remove. Recommend leaving the UCA mounted in the chassis while attempting to remove the ball joint. (I use a 4 foot cheater bar on a breaker bar along with the appropriate socket.)

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You can't fix stupid. - Ron White

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One more tid-bit.

My 1967 FSM dictates front end height side to side to be within 1/8th of an inch. Your car would probably have similar settings, but the same method of setting them.

This measurement is the difference between two measurements: ground to bottom of where torsion bar passes through LCA; and lowest point of lower ball joint to ground. The difference on each side has to be 2 1/8â€￾ +/- 1/8th inch. One has to work back and forth between booth sides until proper height, and height side to side difference is achieved, jouncing the front end after each adjustment.

I have found that setting proper ride height will make a huge difference in handling.

Ride height is also the first setting to be made in front end alignment protocol. I now check & set ride height before heading off to my friendly front end alignment shop, as most of these guys don’t grasp the importance of correct height on Chrysler cars. Probably this stems from no height settings on coil sprung vehicles prevalent on the road these days.

Previous experience has shown me, no amount of mentoring from the customer, will convince the professional mechanic of the importance of setting proper ride height by the book, if he is unfamiliar with Chrysler torsion bar suspensions. All these guys, when asked if they can align a Mopar, will tell you; “oh yeah man, no problem, we do old Mustangs & Corvettes all the time.â€￾ When you hear that, you may want to run out of there, cause that guy is clueless.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

There is one question I have about ride height. The setting for each side involves getting the correct difference between the relative height of the adjuster blade and the lower ball joint housing. It seems to me that there is only one setting that will achieve that difference. What if the two sides are then different from each other, but correct for each side? Or does that just mean the car isn't on a completely level surface?

Good question Slantfin,

As each side is dialed in, working one side than the other, back and forth, eventually the difference evens out to the correct setting. If there is something badly bent, an excessively worn bushing on one side compared to the other, one tire is of a different size from the other on the front, or one rear spring with excessive sag in relation to its mate, than one would have a hard time hitting the factory setting. Also as you suggest, an unleveled floor will screw up height setting. The manual states that the car must be on a level floor or lift, have an empty trunk, and full tank of gas in order to make adjustments.

Even before I replaced all of the suspension parts under my Dart, I could get the front end to factory height. This included mismatched torsion bars, and rotted rear shackle bushings.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

How well balanced are your rear springs? Are they new or rebuilt?
Some times the the rear of the car can affect the front measurement as well.

I replaced the rear first (bushings, springs, shackles, shocks).....then tackled the front (bushings, bars, etc).
It also helps if the trunk is not full of junk...when your on the alignment rack.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

My springs are getting on in years; old or maybe original. Four leaf, and kind of rusty. Also I need to get onto a flatter surface. I tried to find a level spot in the driveway, but it's not very flat. First I have to get the car on the road. I'm installing new diff gears.

one way of telling how bad your front end bushings are is to have the car in neutral , step on the brake - and gently rock the car back and fourth.
if you can "feel" the spindles rocking back and fourth before stoping and or clicking noises - they are probly bad.

if not then they aint that bad yet
lol


when I would put my valiant to reverse backing up - and stop the brakes I could hear (and feel) the spindles "click" as the force of the front brakes caused them to sway backwards.

my upper control arm bushings were shot
but my lower control arm bushings were aniliated - and pulled out with just light finger preassure and then crumbled to dust on the driveway.

with new bushings installed the car handles alot better - and im getting alot more even tire wear now also.

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1972 Plymouth Valiant / slant 6 auto