Ditto. I know the Ford TFI ignition can be adapted with some creative cutting and welding, but I don't know how a distributorless ignition could be adapted easily. Plus, I am leery of getting too far away from the complete factory system. In my mind, the less variables the better. I know the Ford system works great, so why mess with it?

This is how I did my EDIS setup. The wheel has one missing tooth - the sensor/module uses this along with the other tooth pulses to calculate crank position and fire the plugs appropriately. At TDC there is a spec, I don't recall off hand (it's in the megamanual) the missing tooth has to be 6 or 9 teeth away from the sensor.

Do you know if that system will trigger a Ford EECIV MAF injection system? What parts did you use? How did everything get wired? I am trying to avoid the pain of using the megasquirt computer with its seemingly endless fiddling just to get up and running.

It's easy if you have an EEC-IV off a car that originally ran EDIS, like a 4.0 Explorer. Not so easy if it originally ran TFI.

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"Mad Scientist" Matt Cramer
'66 Dart - turbocharged 225
My blog - Mad Scientist Matt's Lair

So back to the throttle bodies, any more thoughts on the products in the inks a posted?

Sam

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Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread. I still would go with the 5.0 throttle body. Lots of aftermarket support and availability. If you are running a MAF injection system I wouldn't worry about the throttle body being too big since the MAF sensor senses the actual amount of air entering the motor and uses the throttle body simply as a TPS sensor.

If you are running a MAP based system then you would have to recalibrate everything since the flowrate at any given throttle position will be different.

This is why I want to start off with a MAF system- much more flexible.

Those new throttle bodies are shiny, but WAY too expensive. I paid $150 for both upper intakes, the wiring harness, all the accessories and serpentine belt system, computer, fuel rail, and injectors for the MAF upgrade on my van. The same throttle body was used on fuel injected 5.0s from 86- to the mid 90s. Go browse the Ford section at the junkyard and you should find at least one. I wouldn't waste my money on a brand new chrome one. The TPS is easy and cheap to replace, as is the IAC valve.

Thanks Reed. Nice to see you active here. Does anyone have an opinion on whether the 75 mm TB is too big for a MAP based turbo 225? I am tempted to try one. And, was there a stock 5.0 engine with a 75mm TB?

Sam

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It will probably work, but you don't need it that big. I think the biggest 5.0L TB was 65 mm. I measured my 4.6L TB and it's 68 mm.

Personally, I think simple mixture tuning will get you bigger gains at the moment than a TB upgrade.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

I don't argue you that point Lou, but if I am going to go through the mixture tuning process, would it not make sense to start with a bigger
TB anyway. If it is not too expensive or too involved? I would not want to redesign everything for this. So if 75 is too big, is a 70mm a reasonable upgrade?

I actually think things are in a state where I could start tweaking boost a little. I was thinking of adding a boost control that would allow me to raise it a pound or so, and then maybe another pound if that worked out.

One thing I am a little unclear on is if the turbo can, by its forced induction nature simply overcome the limits of a smaller TB. How much of this is possible, and at what point do you start limiting the performance in some way by having to increase the boost? Does that question make sense? Does the restriction raise heat perhaps, and thus negate the increase?

And too, I am told that the real increases in power are to be had with timing tuning. I cannot do much with this now, but maybe upgrading to MS II would yield more through tuning the timing map. This is all just speculation. This exploration of options came about because I took it down the track a few times. Until then, I was happy with how it ran. See, I knew this would happen.

Sam

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Lou, I need to let you know I am not in an impulsive mood right now. I know I have spent some money foolishly in the past, the Accel system for instance, because I rushed in with something too fast. I am not there now. Here are the things I am exploring for the Dart:

1. Larger TB.
2. Adjustable boost control
3. Improved air dam. (what I have done already is probably about 80% as fective as it can be, so that is down on the list)
3. Improved hood design. That is in another thread now.
4. Either chrome plate or powder coat bumpers.
5. Make a cover for the shifter console.
6. Fix AF ratio meter.
7. Upgrade to MS II.
8. Fix the gas gauge. Not essential, but would be nice.
9. And I almost forgot the unhooked water injection that could be figured out and brought in with higher boost pressures.

There is nothing urgent about any of these things. The car runs OK. It starts every time, and drives reliably. I can make a case perhaps for the boost control, MS II and the AF meter as being the best performance upgrades right now. Boost control and AF meter would not involve undoing anything, so is probably the most cost effective, and least disruptive thing to work on. But the other stuff currently has my attention as well. But I do appreciate your concern for saving me from my self.

My questions you will see on the forum for awhile now will be mostly exploratory in nature. Thanks for looking out for me.

Sam

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Sam would it be prudent to bite the bullet and go MSII? Since this would be the most involved change I would think to get it out of the way would be better.
Frank

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Scrapple: Because a mind is a terrible thing to waste.
73 Duster - Race Car
66 Dart Wagon - DD
178" FED
82 D150
All Slant powered

Sam,

You have a point about doing TB before tuning. 70mm is plenty big, but certainly useable.

I would do AF WBO2 before messing with anything else.

Frank and others are right that MSII might be the natural next step. I would say get the AF mixture map and timing map tuned up before going into fine tuning boost.

What boost level are you at now?

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

8 lbs. Can someody who has made the switch from MS I to MS II talk about that? How about you Greg? Did you start MS I?
Sam

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The best thing I did for evolving Big Red was to instal a wide band AF ratio gage and mount it on the dash (the LED read out has 1/2" characters). Under all driving conditions, I can see at a glance what's happening.

For example, the other day while changing the thermostat, it appeared to me that the SC belt was a little loose so I tightened it. Sure enough, on the test run, the boost jumped by a couple of psi. When I pulled in front of the garage, it didn't want to idle right. Glancing at the AF gage showed that it was running to lean. Since I had not made any fuel changes, it meant that it was getting more air . . .in my case a vacuum leak. Sure, enough, the extra boost had compromised a substandard joint on the intercooler outlet. Point being, the AF gage saved me time by directing me toward looking for air leakes before considering potential spark or fuel issues. Its my compass.

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Cheers!
Al T