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 Post subject: factory wideband o2 ??
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:21 am 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:17 pm
Posts: 776
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
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Hi all i was just wondering if any factory cars came with wideband o2 sensors stock, how do you ID them and what the difference is between 1,2,3, and 4 wire o2 sensors,

-Mike

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:33 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 6291
Location: So California
Car Model: 64 Plymouth Valiant
1: Unheated narrowband. Wire is signal output
2: Never heard of a 2, but if they exist ; Unheated,1 wire is signal output, other would be signal ground wire
3: Heated narrowband. One wire is signal output, 2 wires are for heater
4: Heated narrowband. One wire is signal ouput, one wire is signal ground, 2 wires are for heater.

Both 1 & 3 rely on a good chassis ground......


There are a couple of cars that came with widebands, can't recall what they are.

And there's more than the two primary technologies (the primaries being the almost universal narrowband, and the wideband used by innovate and others ). I'm not sure if the others are narrowband only, or narrow and wide.....

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64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:11 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:53 pm
Posts: 4295
Location: Gaithersburg MD
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I got the impression from the Inovate literature that the wide band sensor they use comes in some VW's. Cannot verify that. But, it sticks in my mind that is the case.

Sam

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:24 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:17 pm
Posts: 776
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
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well i found this off of wikipedia
Quote:
A variation on the zirconia sensor, called the "wideband" sensor, was introduced by Robert Bosch in 1994 but is (as of 2006) used in only a few vehicles (such as the Subaru Impreza WRX when equipped with a manual transmission). It is based on a planar zirconia element, but also incorporates an electrochemical gas pump. An electronic circuit containing a feedback loop controls the gas pump current to keep the output of the electrochemical cell constant, so that the pump current directly indicates the oxygen content of the exhaust gas. This sensor eliminates the lean-rich cycling inherent in narrow-band sensors, allowing the control unit to adjust the fuel delivery and ignition timing of the engine much more rapidly. In the automotive industry this sensor is also called a UEGO (for Universal Exhaust Gas Oxygen) sensor. UEGO sensors are also commonly used in aftermarket dyno tuning and high-performance driver air-fuel display equipment. The wideband zirconia sensor is used in stratified fuel injection systems, and can now also be used in diesel engines to satisfy the forthcoming EURO and ULEV emission limits.

Wideband sensors have three elements:

Ion Oxygen pump
Narrowband zirconia sensor
Heating element
The wiring diagram for the wideband sensor typically has six wires:

resistive heating element (two wires)
sensor
pump
calibration resistor
common
looked up a o2 for a subbie and its a upstream sensor http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/ ... 98%2C97999 $396.99 just for the o2 sensor !!!!

-Mike

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:31 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:17 pm
Posts: 776
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Car Model:
makes this kit from summit at $249 seem very reasonable http://www.summitracing.com/parts/INN-3802/

-Mike

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:43 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:17 pm
Posts: 776
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Car Model:
better deal yet only $209 and digital http://www.summitracing.com/parts/INN-3795/

-Mike

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:16 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:53 pm
Posts: 4295
Location: Gaithersburg MD
Car Model:
Go to DIYAutoTune.com and look at their Inovate sensor kits. They are about the same price. I know mine died, but Matt claims they have improved them, and that they will stand behind this one if I send it back to them.

Sam

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:17 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:21 am
Posts: 111
Location: Sacramento Ca
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I have had customers tell me that the Honda CRX came with a wideband o2 sensor. I think around 1989 or so.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2003 2:37 pm
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Location: CA
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There are different wide band types just as there are different narrowband types. I don't remember the specifics but one kind was the most expensive. The ones used in the innovate kit also used on VW's as Sam mentioned is relatively inexpensive, usually around $50 for a bosch unit. Don't quote me on this but IIRC bosch is the OEM for vw so it is essentially the same part you would get at the dealer.

I just looked up a 2000 Volkswagen Jetta GLX 2.8L pre-catalyst sensor. Came back to a bosch 17014. I can't be certain but it looks exactly like the one in my innovate kit and also matches the price I remember them being, $52.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:46 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 7834
Location: Portland-ish
Car Model: Fiat 500e
The 49-State lean burn Honda Civic VX (1994-1995 I believe) used a wide band O2 sensor, but I don't know if it's of the proper type to use with the aftermarket controllers and readouts.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:39 am 
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SL6 Racer & Moderator
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2002 12:06 pm
Posts: 8699
Location: Silver Springs, Fl.
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Can the WB sensor be used with leaded race gas? How about Methenol/Ethenol?

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65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:29 am 
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Supercharged

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 6291
Location: So California
Car Model: 64 Plymouth Valiant
Quote:
Can the WB sensor be used with leaded race gas?
Yes, but only for a short time period until the lead screws up the sensor
Quote:
How about Methenol/Ethenol?
Yes. Just remember that the AF isn't 14.7:1........

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64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:20 pm
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Location: Oxford, Georgia
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Quote:
The 49-State lean burn Honda Civic VX (1994-1995 I believe) used a wide band O2 sensor, but I don't know if it's of the proper type to use with the aftermarket controllers and readouts.
Several of the earliest wideband controllers were designed around that sensor, but the supply dried up and so most of the newer ones don't support it.

A lot of VWs used widebands; if you look closely at the connector on an LC-1, you'll see it stamped with a VW logo and part number.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:55 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:17 pm
Posts: 776
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Car Model:
Intresting so far, lot of good info so far, is there any particular spot to mount the o2 sensor ?? like how far down the exhaust should it be mounted ?? what if you run a turbo, obviouslly it will need to be mounted further down because of heat, but how much further down ??

-Mike

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:10 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:20 pm
Posts: 1603
Location: Oxford, Georgia
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Rule of thumb, keep the temperature at 900 degrees F or lower where you put the wideband. Generally 18" downstream of the turbo is far enough.

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"Mad Scientist" Matt Cramer
'66 Dart - turbocharged 225
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