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Eatkinson
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:45 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
Car Model: Once owned a 1963 Dart 170 Suburban
Some running/fuel issues are arising with my 63 Dart wagon that I just got out of long-term storage.

The car had been stored for (basically) 10+ years. For the last two of those ten, it had a nearly full tank of gas in it that hadn't had stabilizers added.

Cut to 2009, got it out of the garage, lubed up the cylinders, added a new in-line fuel filter (before the carb), started it, the thing ran but roughly. The fuel gauged registered nearly full. I siphoned out the old bad gas, and added a tank with some stabilizers since I knew I was going to be gone another year before taking back here to L.A. with me. All of a sudden, the fuel gauge wouldn't read the new tank of gas - still read "Empty". But I knew the tank was full - perhaps the gauge was faulty, though I never had any problem with it before. Drove the wagon around my small Iowa town and seemed to run just fine with the new tank of gas in it. I thought I got lucky, and figured I would fix the fuel gauge later.

Was driving it to a storage unit to put it away for year, and the engine started bucking, like it was running out of gas. Every time I would accelerate, the car stalled, and I would need to re-start. A few times, I had to actively pump the gas pedal to get the engine to catch. But time was short, and I managed to get the car into the storage unit before I had to leave.

Cut to 2010. I get the car out of storage. I get the thing started with no problem, and put it on a trailer. The gas gauge still reads an empty tank, though I know that's not true.

The car arrives here in L.A. with me. Today, I finally check most of the fluids, and spin it down to the local gas station just to fill up the tank. Takes about 14 gallons, so it had something like 4 left, I believe.

Driving it home, and the engine starts bucking again, like before. Every time I accelerate, the engine tries to die. A couple of times, it does, and I have to restart. Sometimes, I can accelerate and the engine will take off. Other times, I can tell the engine's about to choke and die, and I have to let off the gas, at which point, the engine resumes a normal idle. I barely made it home, with a bunch of restarts needed.

What's wrong here? Is that old tank of bad gas finally catching up with me? I figure the gas gauge is a clue. I changed out the fuel filter BEFORE siphoning out the gas. I'm concerned that perhaps there was some sediment from the old gas left when I put the new tank in, or that some of the old gas turned to varnish in the tank and it's still present, clogging the fuel line, fouling the contact reader on the gas gauge, clogging the fuel filter, pump and carburetor. If I step on the gas and the engine wants to die, that tells me it's likely sucking air.

Any thoughts or recommendations for what to do? I'd like to fix the problem mostly myself, if possible.

Evan
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emsvitil
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:52 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:50 pm
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Location: So California
Car Model: 64 Plymouth Valiant
Put a fuel pressure gauge on the line next to the carb and see what the pressure is.


Most likely the sock on the end the line inside the tank is gummed/clogged up.

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Eatkinson
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:01 am 
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
Car Model: Once owned a 1963 Dart 170 Suburban
Thanks! I'll give that a try and see what happens. BTW, since I've not really gotten into working on my Darts/Valiants myself, if I discover that the fuel pressure is less than optimal (what should it be reading?), do I need to siphon out most of the gas, and then take out the tank, etc., boil the tank and clean the line, etc?
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66aCUDA
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:41 am 
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That is the prefered method of fixing the tank.
Frank

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Eatkinson
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:28 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
Car Model: Once owned a 1963 Dart 170 Suburban
Frank-

Thanks for the help. I've got time on my hands right now, and would like to do this myself. I can probably get the back end of the vehicle up on ramps to give myself added clearance. Here's a few questions:

1. How do I disconnect the fuel-filler tube from the tank, so I may drop it?

2. I see where the gas line enters the tank via the sending unit. How do I remove the sending unit correctly?

3. Does anyone here in Southern California have experience with radiator shops NOT being willing to boil out your gas tank because of EPA restrictions?

Thanks for the assistance!


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madmax/6
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:20 pm 
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Turbo EFI

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:21 pm
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I am in Long Beach, Very willing to help and guide you in the right direction, please give me a call. 562 986 0070 shop. cell 562 290 2194. Guzzi Mark
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Eatkinson
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:55 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
Car Model: Once owned a 1963 Dart 170 Suburban
Pulled the tank out of the wagon, along with the sending unit. Cleaned some sizable rust from the outside, and inside tube of the sending unit, and sprayed carb cleaner along the arm with the float - I think the reason it wasn't working was because the arm was completely stiff and couldn't move (probably from the built-up schmutz and varnish). Also put on a new fuel sock.

Sent the tank to a local shop: they vatted it, and re-lined it. Mentioned they had to double-dip it to remove all the built-up crud inside the tank, but stated it came out well, with the tank's metal "still good". But they were pretty surprised (I was too) that the original undercoating for the tank didn't come off in the process, except in a couple spots! I'm curious: what is that stuff made from?

After waiting a few days for the lining to cure (during which I blew out the fuel lines, and changed the fuel filter next to the carburetor), I re-installed the tank in the car, with the sending unit with the float/arm now working right, filled the tank 1/2way with a new seal on the sending unit and the original lockring (the new replacement lockring provided didn't hold the sending unit on as tightly as the original). After a little cranking, the car started right up and ran relatively smoothly. No leaks from the tank, and the gas gauge is working correctly!

Quite pleased with the result. Thanks everyone for the help.
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wjajr
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:40 am 
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Eatkinson:
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But they were pretty surprised (I was too) that the original undercoating for the tank didn't come off in the process, except in a couple spots! I'm curious: what is that stuff made from?
Pre EPA, and OSHA quality dead dinosaur drippings. Ahhh… the good old days.

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66aCUDA
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:10 am 
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Glad your tank turned out so well. If you dont mind my asking what did it set you back. Just wanted to compare to a new tank.
Frank

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73 Duster - Race Car
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82 D150
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Eatkinson
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:44 pm 
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Car Model: Once owned a 1963 Dart 170 Suburban
Mine was $125 to double-dip and line/seal it again. I may have spoken too soon about my @#(%! gas gauge. It was reading full when I filled it yesterday, but today while driving the car around, the gauge sank to 3/4, then to 1/2 (and this is without any gas leaking from the tank, and me driving it a couple of miles), so something is going on. T'would be so nice if it would just fix itself. I wonder if there's something going on with the float/arm on the sending unit, or if the contact board on the old unit actually has a problem. Thoughts anybody?
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slantfin
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:24 pm 
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I think that if you ground the wire that attaches to the sending unit, it should read full. If it doesn't, the problem is in the circuit. If it does, the problem is in the sending unit. I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong. In other words, be systematic and logical. Good luck!

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wjajr
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:09 am 
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Where the gage slowly retreated to “Eâ€￾, a good guess would be a sunken fuel logged float. But before you disassemble all that rigging, check the electrical part of the picture first.

Unplugging and grounding the gage wire should result in a full gage reading.

Sometimes that ground strap connecting the metal sending unit to the steel fuel line becomes corrupted. A degraded ground will also produce a false gage reading as it acts like a resister in series. Check ground continuity between sending unit & frame of the car. Make sure that the sending unit has a good ground.

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madmax/6
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:21 pm
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When I had the same troubles,I bought a new sending unit.waited a couple weeks to install and then everything started to work correctly.5 years later I still have the new one just waiting for it to screw up.Ya gotta buy a new one and just threaten it.Mark
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Eatkinson
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:57 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
Car Model: Once owned a 1963 Dart 170 Suburban
This story has ended positively.

Drove the car until just a gallon or two away from empty. Removed the fuel sending unit, and voila, the brass float had a nice big crack in it and was holding gasoline that dripped out as I removed it. Fortunately, I had a spare on hand.

Polished up the grounding strap and clamping location, re-installed the sending unit with the new brass float, and I'm now getting a "Full" reading when the tank is full, and have watched it read down, the more I drive it.

Thanks for all the help on this guys. Now I just have to get the engine running well so my gas mileage will go from "Horrible" to "Less Bad".
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4speed
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:51 pm 
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With a car sitting this long I would re-build the carb. The carter would have a bad accelerator pump at least (the leather shrinks) and the holley would have dried out/bad gaskets. They are not hard to do. Just be careful and note every thing-measure twice! And once it is clean-keep it clean. Does you slant six have a pcv valve? I would clean it too. Which small IOWA town? My first car came from Ames in 75.

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