Thursday: Me and my old mom spend some days at her cabin, and as I was going to get some groceries, my engine started, idled, but repeatedly stalled when shifting into gear and tried pulling away, so I gave up on the shopping. I have had some trouble with my BBD carb for a while (I have a replacement just waiting), so I partly dismantled it and checked intake needle/float level and looked for clogged jets and so on, and checked up on all adjustments when assembling it again. Car started, idled, and seemed fine, but by then it was late in the day, so I left it there.
Friday: Next day we intended drive home, to pick up the mail. Car started, idled, but hesitated when engaging the gear, and stalled when trying to pull away. I tried repeatedly, and found that by milking the gas pedal while braking, I could put it in gear and drive. Could just be some goo from the fuel tank clogging up the jets, so I guessed it would clear out when driving. After a couple of miles we turned and limped back, the car was hopeless to drive. Knowing the carb was OK, I checked the timing and dizzy, and looked over every part I could think of. It started, idled and died. I have a lot of goo in my fuel tank, and I had a new fuel filter that I had intended to use for something else, but I used it to replace the old one, and in the process I also checked for cracked hoses sucking air. Started, idled and died. OK, clogged fuel line. Cannot do anything till tomorrow.
Saturday: There is no compressed air to clear the fuel line for miles around, so despite the temperature was only a couple of degrees above freezing, I took my bicycle and went to buy a poor man's manual air compressor: A garden pesticide spray container, you know those 5 litre plastic jars that you can pump up.

Cold. Very cold.
Yesterday: The spray jar's nozzle attachment accepted a piece of 5/16 " pipe, I pumped the can till the safety valve popped, jammed the pipe end into the fuel hose that I took off the fuel pump, and squeezed the trigger. Oh joy, the sound of bubbles from the fuel tank told me the line was cleared! Hmm, that bubbling stopped awfully quick. I squeezed the trigger again. Nothing happened. I vent around the car to open the fuel cap, I definitely smelled gas, I heard the sound of something guzzling out from under the car, I opened the fuel cap and got a hissing sound of escaping fumes, and I got down on all fours and looked under the car. Oh sh.., the epoxy I had used on those two small holes in the tank that I made when landing on a rock some years ago, had been blown away from the pressure in the tank, and the fuel was spurting out in two small sprays. Quicker than lightning, I cut open the side of a gallon-sized plastic can I had in the back of the car, and placed it under the leaking fuel tank. I have never jacked up a car and taken a wheel off in so short a time before, fire extinguisher by my side. I finally managed to stem the fuel flow with some epoxy glue, and left it to cure overnight.



When using the compressed air to check the fuel tank ventilating pipe, it turned out to be clogged solid, so I used some brake line and made a short new pipe.

Today: (Monday) I replaced the hose between tank and fuel line with fuel injection hose, and mixed a new batch epoxy to cover the area were the holes in the fuel tank was.


I bought a fuel filter/water separator some time ago, so I took the opportunity to fit it, using new fuel injection hose all around, and took my time to do some other small repairs and fixes. I lowered the car again, attached the battery cables, and turned the engine over to check for leaks. It started right away, and I cut it immediately and went to the engine compartment to check the hose connections. No leaks, the see-through bowl of the new fuel filter was filled immediately, an everything looked fine. I was going to take the car for a spin, so by impulse I checked the oil. Oh holy f..k!! The level was WAY up there on the stick, cannot be right. Checked again - OH NOOooo! I guess a broken fuel pump must have pumped gasoline into the engine oil, must be half a gallon there! Christ, what had happened if it had ignited inside the engine? I have some old parts at the cabin, and by chance I found a fuel pump, I think it is OK, I'll find out tomorrow.

Now the question is, how much damage has been done to the engine because of the diluted engine oil (synthetic)? Anyone out there having experienced that?

I'll report back tomorrow.

Olaf.

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Aspenized

Olaf,

Sounds like quite an experience. It doesn't sound like you've run the vehicle very much with the diluted oil, so hopefully your rings and bearings weren't effected. These Slants can take a pretty good beating. Let us know how it goes.

I appreciate your resourcefulness and troubleshooting abilities.

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Rob

I’m Mater
The Kentucky Poser

probably no damage from the diluted oil; it may have loosened up a bunch of crap (sludge) in the engine so though thin, expect that oil to come out real dirty! and since the fire happens on top of the piston the chances of a fire within the crank case is actually quite small.

Olaf
Drain your oil, put in fresh, drive home. Then drain that oil and put fresh back in. I have had this happen twice on 2 different cars/trucks. Mobil 1 oil and Wix filter not problems.
Frank

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Scrapple: Because a mind is a terrible thing to waste.
73 Duster - Race Car
66 Dart Wagon - DD
178" FED
82 D150
All Slant powered

Don't forget to remove the oil pan full of gas & oil from under the car before you start it up again. My brother forgot once, and while it was dramatic, fortunately it did no damage.

Olaf,

Back to your original problem: The car idles but won't pull away.

I recognized the clue immediately: Visiting the old camp. The photos of the dirt road confirmed it. Bouncing the car along the dirt road caused lots of particles to enter the carb, and particles that had been in the bottom of the float bowl to get sucked into the innards of the carb.

Believe me, I had EXACTLY this symptom after going over back roads (and through fields) years ago with my old Valiant.

A good carb rebuild will solve that "stalling when taking off" issue.

- Mac

Im thinking it idles but wont pull away becaue the fuel pump is buggert......

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Yeah....Im the one who destroyed this rare, vintage automobile.....

Mac, I tip my hat to you, read on!

Tuesday: Anybody seen a brain floating around somewhere? Probably mine, there's a void where it used to be...
I was preparing to get rid of the fuel-infested engine oil, and pulled the dipstick again to see about how much it was in the pan.

It was perfectly normal. I smelled it. Oil, not gas. What the...!

If you see the photo of the car, it is actually sitting on a slope. When lowering the car, it ends up with the front higher than the rear, and also canted over to the left (lowest side towards the camera). When I hastily checked the oil and found it to be too high on the dipstick, I didn't smell it, and that slope didn't cross my mind at all. I cannot understand that the oil level should be so high anyway, but today I let the car roll a couple of meters backwards, to an almost level spot before starting to work on it, and that was it. Jeez...
It saved me the work to replace the fuel pump, but I still have a problem about the high reading on the dipstick. The sideways canting may have caused oil to run back along the dipstick surface, somehow. Oh, well.
So, that problem out of the way, it was finally time for a test drive. It started, idled, and died when trying to pull away, same as before. OK, ignition was working fine, timing was spot on at 14°, timing mark confirmed at top, fuel supply upgraded and working, so the carb was checked again, completely off this time. I had had the upper 'lid' off, lifted the floats, and cleaned it out once before, at the start of this adventure, but this time I would dismantle it totally. Wow, surprise! Take a look at this:



The small blue plastic pieces are from the hose lining in the new hoses, probably from the cutting, so I know this is new muck. How it got there after the first clean? I don't have the foggiest idea! It must have been in the line after the blow-back. Reading Mac's comment above, I can see how it got into the system in the first place, but there are rust flakes from the tank too! I cleaned it out again, and blew the carburetor clean with air from my pesticide compressor. Surprisingly efficient with a small hole for the air, but it requires frequent and heavy pumping! Upon assembly, I noticed a cut halfway into the lip of the acceleration pump plunger, but had no fix for that, so I let it pass for now. Before starting up, I fit a small fuel pressure gauge in the line into the carb, cranked the engine for a few seconds, and it fired up as if nothing had happened. I have never used a fuel pressure gauge on this engine before, so I don't know how it should behave: It had steady intervals for about 10-15 seconds at slightly less than 3 ½ psi at high idle, but would suddenly flutter and dip before steadying again. I suspect it was because I didn't use a distance piece between the fuel line and gauge. The improvised connector started dripping fuel, so I cut that test short. I took a very short test drive, just up through the gears, and felt the ruptured acc pump giving a huge hesitation when pulling out forward - it needed some careful pumping at takeoff, when backing up it was hardly noticeable because of the low reverse gear. I let the car idle till warm and took another shorty test drive with same results as when not fully warmed up. Apart from the acc pump, the car behaved as normal.
The manual says a fuel pressure should be steady at 3 ½ to 5 psi, and return slowly to zero after engine is stopped. Stupid as I can be, I forgot to test the suction side of the fuel pump with a vacuum gauge before I fitted all the new hoses, it should have read 10 inches of vacuum at idle, with fuel line to carb disconnected. I didn't want to spill fuel all over again by doing it now, and besides the first snow for this season started to blow around my ears, so I called it a day. I'll just ask Santa for a new fuel pump this X-mas anyway, a new '77 Aspen fuel tank is not available, so I'll remove it for cleaning in the spring. So, what did I learn? An internally functional engine just needs fuel and some form of ignition at the right time to run. That simple sentence sadly covers a world of different practical solutions, but I adapt Sherlock Holmes' words to my situation: ...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth! I'll fit a new accelerator pump when I get home, and if everything works normal then, that will conclude my little pre-winter adventure.

Olaf

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Aspenized

Olaf, that's exactly what my carb looked like 30 years ago when this happened to me!



Glad to have helped.

- Mac

Today, Wednesday, I took sandy in BC's advice and switched the fuel pump anyway, just to eliminate it from the equation. Good thing I did, I can tell you that you were probably right about that, sandy in BC! The car is a joy to drive, apart from a very slight hesitation at take-off, it must be from the broken acc pump. To sum it up; a leaky fuel tank full of crud glued up, replaced clogged fuel tank vent pipe, new hoses to a 'new' fuel pump, new hoses to a new fuel filter/water separator, and a carb full of $#!+ cleaned twice. Soon time to make the switch to my 'new' Autolite 2150 1.08 carburetor, I just need to find a low profile 4-bbl air cleaner housing first. I'll post pics.

Olaf

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Aspenized

Some interesting info in this thread.I have never heard of the fuel pump thing before,always good to have a bit of extra knowledge.
You sure do like writing long stories/books Olaf
Keep us posted.

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DRIVE IT,DON'T HIDE IT

I enjoyed that story very much Olaf. Thanks for keeping us in the loop. Don't feel so dumb. I thought my fuel pump was bad, and I was only out of gas. Why do we tend to jump to conclusions and imagine the worst at that time?

Sam

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I don't know, Sam, but sometimes I think I can hear a faint, impatient rattle from my toolbox when I think hard about a little problem, and it seems to grow louder with the complexity of the problem!

I guess that apart from the usual bad timing, we really LIKE solving the car related kind of problems, the worse the better, so if it isn't big - we make it big! I know I do!

Olaf.

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Aspenized

So you are saying we are mechanical stress junkies?

Sam

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Yup.

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Aspenized