Ok, so I now have my new super six build with a well worn out 904 behind it. The plan is to get any bugs worked out like this, and then move to a t-5. This slant is pretty peppy with a 904 and a 2.90 limited slip. It should be down right fun with a t-5 and 3.90's (and still livable on the freeway). Not opposed to a 3.73, I'm really on the fence as to which is more palatable. OD ratio on this trans is supposed to be .83, which means the final drive will be 3.09 with the 3.73 or 3.23 with 3.90's. It's not unusual to be going 80mph on the freeways here.

I thought it would be kinda fun to try and make a thread that documents the whole process, with pics. I intend this to take several months, on the order of 3-6 months, ideally, while I collect the last few parts I need, and then do the swap. I expect the swap to go fairly quickly, honestly.

So the current parts list:
-t-5 trans out of a '83ish turbo t-bird (according to the tranny tag)
-Group Buy t-5 bellhousing (acquired on ebay a few years ago)
-Borg & Beck pressure plate & flywheel - the 10" truck stuff
-4 speed pedal assembly
-new 85 mustang GT clutch plate
-new pilot bearing for a '83 t-bird 4cyl.

Parts left to acquire
-Hydraulic throwout bearing (planning on the RAM unit)
-Clutch master cylinder
-urethane trans mount
-pilot bearing adapter
-will probably have to go from a bench to buckets.
-new ring and pinion for the rear

According to the numbers I looked at, this transmission is supposed to be good for up to 235 ft/lbs of torque, which makes me think it will be fine behind this slant. Rear is a 8 1/4.

Has anyone else used the RAM hydraulic tob? I'm leaning towards that one pretty much solely because it is cheaper than the McLeod stuff. And I am fairly dead set on the hyrdraulic tob, as opposed to a conventional bearing/fork with a master/slave cyl.

As for the pilot bearing adapter, is there any reason I shouldn't machine this from aluminum? Since it is rotating mass I figure it wouldn't hurt to keep it as light as possible.

Does anyone know if I can mock up this combo on the back of a '73 block & forged crank (which I happen to have sitting around, waiting to be turned into a turbo efi motor one day)? My '83 cast crank combo is in the car currently. I'd love to do the initial assembly, setup and adapter on a stand as opposed to under the car. Is there a difference between the crank hub sizes, or how far the crank sticks out of the block between the cast and forged crank motors? I'm pretty sure the hub size is identical, but unsure about how far the hub sticks into the bellhousing.

Pics!

Transmission



Pressure Plate and Flywheel


Pedal Assembly


New parts


The Car

Looks like you are well on your way. The T5 swap is so nice to drive, but will take some fiddling, as you are aware.

You can use the '73 engine to mock up - crank hub/hole and engine bolt pattern are the same as your '83. I am using the McLeod hydro bearing I bought from PAW back in 2001, and a Wilwood clutch master cyl from Summit. I used that same clutch setup for about 10-15k miles behind a 250 HP engine and it was great but started to slip after a bunch of racing and clutch dumps. Should be a perfect setup behind your Slant. Be advised that the 10" truck clutch PP is known to explode IF you do high RPM clutch dumps or the like.

Happy building...

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

Just because I'm fresh to this topic, and musing about a T5 conversion at some point in the distant future, I have this to add:

The McLeod HTOB is $360 from Summit
The Ram unit is $200, plus $31 for the bleeder line (ouch!). This is all -3AN stuff so you might be able to find a cheaper substitute. You'll also need a little adapter to get 3AN down to 1/8th NPT for the clutch master for $12 (ouch again!).
The Howe unit is $160. I've held this in my hands and it seems quality. Pretty sure it's 3an as well.

You might want to think about ditching the stock clutch pedal. Why? Well, you're going to have to mount the master to the firewall, and you'll probably need to make some kind of plate to make the firewall stronger at that point. Fabrication=downtime. You'll also get stuck in the wacky world of getting the right length pushrod. It's not difficult, and you'll find that phillips screwdriver shank makes good pushrod stock, but it's more fab.

Summit gets $129 for the complete Wilwood floor mounted master and pedal combo, and it comes with a remote reservoir if you want it (which you will, mount the res in the engine compartment). That magilla bolts or welds to the floor and now you're done. I have this same part (minus the pedal) in my truck and it's one of the few parts I've bought that actually worked great right out of the box.

If you are cheapskate like me, you might want to try and go with something more stock on the HTOB. Money is money, but possibly more important is availability. In my hydraulic conversion, I used the HTOB from a 93 Jeep Wrangler with a 6, and it costs $80 and is available anywhere. I pulled the spring out of it, cut the lines and added my own generic fittings, and drilled out the locating hole so it fit the 833OD. I also had to shave the input bearing retainer on the 833 down about .005 to get the HTOB to fit. So far, it works well, and when it doesn't I can get another at any NAPA.

Something tells me that many dudes with a T5 have used a hydraulic clutch, and somebody somewhere must have solved this HTOB problem before without spending hundreds. Google - do your stuff.

You already have your clutch and PP, but I'm pretty sure you can get a 10" in the three finger or diaphram style. Not sure of the relative merits of each, but the diaphram might be easier on your leg. Dunno.

Take lots of pics, write lots of words. This T5 upgrade should be something we can all do without having to re-invent the wheel every time.

Kip-On-Truckin'

_________________
1965 Valiant wagon Turbo slant (work in progress)
2000 Chevy 155" cargo van - The Abductor
1970 Newport convertible
1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon
1966 CruiseAire motor home
1990 Toyota 1 ton box truck TURBO slant (scraped)

Kip,

Thanks for the input!! A few things in there that I hadn't considered...

For the pedal, I didn't know about or price the summit pedal parts - 130 for the pedal and master cyl is pretty awesome, considering that 120 is cheap for just that stock pedal assembly I have (at least, that's the cheapest I've been able to find it for). I'll be doing some more research into that option for sure... upside-down under the dash isn't my favorite type of work, so anything that minimizes that is definately up for consideration. Not sure if a floor mount will work in the Dart though, the firewall slopes up, so it'd be mounted pretty far forwatd, and I have kinda long legs.

I would love to go with a more stock piece for the HTOB, but that seems to be a little hard to come by. Part of my leanings toward the RAM piece is that it does come with the front input shaft bearing retainer, which is kinda chewed up on my transmission. Apparently the stock ones were aluminum, and galling/wear on that shaft is a very common issue. It might work, but I'd rather replace it. Also, ebay has the RAM unit for 199, and it supposedly includes fittings and the remote bleeder line, in addition to the bearing and front retainer. Also, when it comes to the HTOB, I don't really consider it a "field repair" item - you pretty much have to drop the tranny to take care of it, so I'm not overly concerned if I have to order the part vs going to autozone or napa.

Also, down time isn't a huge concern in my case. I don't want the car down for months and months, but I expect a few weeks minimum just due to scheduling. Also, I can cheat a little bit on the fab work - I have a '73 block/crank I can do almost all my tranny mockup on, and it just happens that I have a '73 Dart Swinger shell that I plan to do my pedal mockups on. Ideally, I can do pretty much all the work in advance, and just do parts swaps when it comes time to do it for real. The only item I'm planning to have to fab on the car is the transmission cross member. (my slant six k frame is in the running car, so I can't put the whole assembly into a car to fab that in advance, unfortunately.)

I know several people have solved these problems, I've been reading their posts for quite some time. I believe Sandy in BC used a master/slave cyl setup for his clutch. Lou & Sam have a HTOB, I think. I want to go through and provide the links to all the great posts on this swap, because I've used them extensively in my planning.

I'm kinda hoping that this can eventually turn into an article. It would be awesome to have all our collective effort documented in one place, and the T-5 swap seems to come up and generate questions just often enough to be annoying.

Lou - would you recommend against that pressure plate/flywheel combo? I was aware from Doug's article that it isn't a high rpm piece. My intended usage is 90% driver, but it will be going to the test and tune night at the strip (on street rubber, no slicks), and if all goes well, it will probably see some auto-x events, and possibly a road course or two. All in street trim; 5k clutch dumps aren't really on the radar for this one...

I think you're right about the RAM. I noticed that they sell a rebuild kit for their TOB for $12.99. I can't see how it wouldn't last forever so long as you can rebuild it. A new retainer piece is hard to resist - especially for the price.

Taking another look at the Wilwood pedal/master combo, looks like it's designed to be bolted to the floor OR bolted to the firewall. I also found this:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-250-3677/
which is a $35 parts pile that might make for a near-zero-fabrication way to make the firewall strong enough. Or maybe our firewalls are already strong enough and none of this is needed.

I don't know much about clutch/PP combos, but it seems to me that if the Mopar selections are rpm limited or just choice limited, it might make sense to use the clutch/pp from the Ford, assuming it opens up the world of Mustang parts to you. You are probably married to the mopar flywheel because of the starter, but not necessarily. The flywheel could be redrilled to accept ANY pressure plate, if for some reason you wanted to use something specific. The engine won't know the difference.

Fun stuff.

_________________
1965 Valiant wagon Turbo slant (work in progress)
2000 Chevy 155" cargo van - The Abductor
1970 Newport convertible
1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon
1966 CruiseAire motor home
1990 Toyota 1 ton box truck TURBO slant (scraped)

I was happy with that clutch setup, but it could not quite stand up to the torque of my engine long term...

I need to check out that RAM setup...

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

......nope

My clutch is stock from pedal to pilot bushing except for a McLeod clutch disc. I had to machine down the input bearing retainer to fit the stock TOB.

Using the stock linkage and clutch stuff saves a lot of money and effort.

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Yeah....Im the one who destroyed this rare, vintage automobile.....

72polara just saying, i pulled a Z32 (86-94 nissan 300ZX) clutch master and pedal assembly for about $30 with a rebuild kit add another $12 so $42 total, not bad all i need is a decently priced trans to start the conversion, oh and i will be using the late model multi-bolt 833OD aluminium bell for my swap,

-Mike

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I am the Guardian, I hate helos, everything leaks.......

Does it make any sense to try to combine this T5 swap with a Ford rearend swap at the same time? Seems to me that since you have to make the adapter plate for the trans, is there something from maybe a V6 Ranger or L6 F150 that could also donate it's rear, all in one fell swoop? Might you save the cost of a custom driveshaft and get disc brakes approaching it that way? Wasn't there some other benefit to a Ford rear that I can't recall? Just wondering aloud.

_________________
1965 Valiant wagon Turbo slant (work in progress)
2000 Chevy 155" cargo van - The Abductor
1970 Newport convertible
1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon
1966 CruiseAire motor home
1990 Toyota 1 ton box truck TURBO slant (scraped)

Ford 8" from Maverick or 64-66 Mustang or ~ 80 Granada is a good swap and would allow an all Ford driveshaft. Ford 8" is more of a "bolt in" than even an A-body 8.75" Mopar due to the driveshaft length issue, IF you're using a Mopar trans.

I will likely go to a Ford 7.5" or 8" in my '64 Dart to save 30-50 lbs of unsprung weight and have more easily available parts (8.75" in there now).

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

If my memory serves me correct, Mercury had a cousin to the Grenada and it was available from the factory with Disc brakes. I left the Ford dealership in 1980, so this is "old" memory stuff!

Rick

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!

12.70 @ 104.6

The 1975-1980 Granada/Monarch rear axle is 1" wider than an A-body rear axle. I measured 57.5" rather than the 58.0" I found listed on-line.This is somewhat troublesome when trying to fit the maximum tire as +3/4" (19mm) offset wheels are hard to come by. I'm lucky in that I had a set of cop car wheels customized previously with this offset. A 2" wider than stock (58.5") axle allows the use of +30mm offset wheels which are relatively plentiful in 17". Trouble is there aren't any commonly available 58.5" wide axles. I have a '65 B-body 8 3/4 under my '66 Barracuda and it's 59.5" wide so my +30mm offset wheels end up a little too far outboard, but +40mm wheels fit nice and are easy to come by, but don't fit the front without a spacer like +30mm offset 17" wheels do.

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Joshua

Nice rundown, Josh. The early Mustang and Maverick axles are around 56.5" wide. I have no issues with using wheel spacers to accomodate higher offset wheels (ducks flying objects... ).

Personally, I believe that the BIGGEST issue with people's wheels falling off, whether with spacers or not, is having sufficient lugnut and/or spacer nut torque. Once something starts to get loose, even a tiny bit, it's all over.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

We went through the rear axle thing in March 2008 when Dion brought it up. There exists a 58.5" wide rear axle, 5 lug on 4.5" circle, even has 2.5" axle tubes so the U-bolts and shock plates from a 7 1/4 will fit. It's even a Dana. Trouble is it's so old it has tapered axles shafts and coarse spline axles so differential parts are tough to come by. Care to guess who used such a beast? It's a long dead independent manufacturer.

I have no problem with a good spacer myself. There is an 8 1/4 with 1" billet spacers under my '67 Valiant. I should probably pull the wheels and check the torque on the spacers.

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Joshua

I used a 31 spline Ford 8.8 from an Explorer. It comes with disc brakes.....5x4.5 pattern and is only a little heavier than a 7.25 with 9" drums. Lots of good ratios....cheap to buy.

_________________
Yeah....Im the one who destroyed this rare, vintage automobile.....